The UCLA Administrative Fellowship: Vrushangi Shah

<p>hello everyone this is Cole from the American Journal of healthc care strategy I'm joined by a special guest today with a long uh in incredible kind of history and journey and healthcare administration vangi sha vangi please introduce yourself yeah absolutely first of all Cole thank you so much for having me I'm excited to chat through all things Health Management as well as a little bit of Public Health and to everyone who's listening my name is rangi Shaw I am currently a program manager of the Adolescent young adult oncology program at UCLA health in Los Angeles [Music] California prior to this I was the administrative fellow at UCLA health and before that I was really in school my whole life I did undergrad at St Louis University where I majored in healthcare administration a and minored in public health um I was also an MLK scholar at the institution and directly from there I went to the University of Southern California so price School of Public Policy where I received my masters in health admin I'm excited to chat today we're really excited to have you on you know LA area is popular people desire to go there and so I think that'll be nice for fellows but as we've been talking about you know you've also had challenges that you've overcome uh you know similar to a lot of the people who are successful now and so but you know when we start off early on in undergrad or in grad school uh we might not know as many people who've been successful so it can seem very daunting to look at so I really appreciate you coming on to share about that I want to first you know go back to undergrad and talk about that you know degree program that you did at the University of St or St Lewis University rather excuse me in healthcare administration and management I believe you were talking about earlier that there was a bit of a major change that went on there what was your previous major and then what was the reason for the change yeah absolutely so at St Louis University or I'll refer to it as slooh moving forward which is what everyone in the midwest calls it you know when I first entered you know in high school I think I was like I'm going to do something in healthcare maybe I'll become a doctor I I think deep down in my heart I always knew that going The Physician route or even any clinical route wasn't me being true to myself but it was like the safe option and so when I first entered slooh I was actually a well for the shortest time I decided that maybe I'll do business before I even Ste foot on campus though I switched and for about a year and a half before I found Health Administration I was a Health Sciences major on a pre-physical therapy um route and very honestly um right from the get-go you know I I would say I wasn't my class um I had a lot of stress a lot of anxiety especially around exam time when it came to those biology class classes um even some of the more challenging I think math courses and so did about a year and a half of that you know mental health not so great grades also not great and you know I trying to be as authentic to myself I knew I wasn't in that moment because not only were my grades terrible but I didn't feel passionate about going the clinical route and so my sophomore year winter break I uh literally Googled careers that mix business and science together and funny enough that's exactly how I found Health Administration and you know I decided then I was like this feels like something I would be incredibly interested in so I applied to switch my college so I went from the College of Health Sciences to the college for Public Health and Social Justice and you know switched my major to health with a minor in public health I feel like Health Management and public health go well together um and so that's kind of how I ended up in that major and I absolutely fell in love I'm so so thankful I found that major and we're thankful as well that you found it you've done so well in your in your whole career and I think you've made a big impact so you can really tell that you know when you when you find where you're supposed to be at least for the time being you do tend to make a bigger impact and and can you talk about a little bit the mental health effect that you know you had when You' switched your major did you know how how better it got what the timeline for the Improvement in mental health was just because we're trying to raise awareness of that topic yeah absolutely mental health incredibly important I definitely think we should all talk about it more try and find resources and also just have some sort of a support system and I'm very thankful that I had that support system in my family and in my friends and so you know my sister super big shout out to her when I told her that I was going to do this I think from the minute I told her I was thinking about switching my major doing Health Management even though she didn't necessarily know a lot about it because she's younger than me she believed in me from day one and I'm so appreciative of that because having someone encourage you having someone believe in you is so important I think like it can completely have an impact on your success and then from there you know I obviously had a very honest conversation with my parents and they were very supportive and you know and my mom was like you got this you know if you feel like this is the path for you go ahead and switch your major so talk to my mom I remember there was a day where I had done very poorly on a biology exam and I was I remember just being in tears I called my mom and you know she then she called my dad and my dad was like don't worry about it he drove I think it was 45 50 minutes to my campus that day left all his meetings and I remember sitting at this very popular sandwich shop and he sat with me and he you know talked to me talked to me about you know his journey some of the classes he did poorly in when he was in college and he was like don't worry we'll figure this out together switch your major and then to kind of answer your question of like the change in mental health oh my gosh that uh that February of my sophomore year I was officially accepted into the college for public health officially accepted into the major I think that that the it was immediate right I suddenly loved all my classes I was doing well in them so my grades were going back up and I was on an upward trajectory for my grades in my GPA and I just I found my people not only amazing professors and mentors and like academic advisers but also my friends and it was so funny because one of my best friends she was switching her major at the same time and because it was winter break we didn't get a chance to necessarily talk to each other and then in February we both ended up in you know the same college and she actually ended up uh getting a public health degree and then I got the Health Management degree so it was almost immediate and um I was so proud of myself because I not only found my passion but thankfully I had the good grades for it to move forward and be successful incredible that is a wonderful kind of experience uh in terms of the the tail end of that right the transition and and really nice support from your parents it's it's wonderful it's beautiful to see that kind of support and so you did end up going to the mha program right at at USC what led you to apply for USC and just to provide a little bit of uh background I'm assuming you're from that that St Louis University area the slooh area right because you said your dad was about 45 minutes away so I'm assuming that was the general area you're from what led you to to go out to California yeah yeah yeah so little bit of a caveat there I think like people who know me well know moved around quite a bit so actually spent the majority of my life in Michigan still the Midwest area you know drivable from St Louis and funny enough because I was so close to my family every single time I you know there was a change in where my dad worked I kind of for whatever reason appli to schools in that area so I applied to undergrad when he moved around my senior year of uh high school so then that's how I got into slooh and then funny enough he had moved to California for his job my sister had gotten into a university here and so because my family was all in California I was like let me just give it a try and and you know again I'm going to allude to how important it is to have a strong support system I was not going to apply to USC I remember I was on vacation visiting California and we were driving past a building that had USC written on it and I remember point pointing to the building and saying to my mom uh and my whole family we were all in the car I was like oh that is such a good school it's so hard but I could never get in and my mom you know she said why why would you just assume the negative um try why don't you give it a try and I am so thankful that I didn't let my insecurities get the best of me and I actually listened to my mom and I still remember the day I got the acceptance to the USC mha program I mean all tears all tears I I remember it was April of 2020 so I was actually home still in school but of course the pandemic was going on and I got that email where it was like you know we're we're accepting you and I am so thankful that I had a support system that encouraged me and you know knew my struggles but also knew my potential um and I I guess like I got in and you know I had a tough choice to make I had some other acceptances from other grad programs but at the end of the day I think USC being the school and the reputation that they have also being close to my family is what sold me on coming to California you know I struggled a little bit the Midwest and even the east coast is very different than than California I struggled adjusting to the environment here and now I absolutely love it that is really nice that you were able to to adapt and and have you been on the East Coast previously so I haven't lived on the East Coast but growing growing up always you know went to um New York New Jersey Pennsylvania went to DC a lot in undergrad because I was a part of this organization that did advocacy work on Capitol Hill so familiar with DC to uh DC and the east coast to a certain extent but yeah very different than California yeah absolutely yeah what does your if you don't mind me asking what does your dad do for work yeah so he is in quality control and compliance for medications and so he does a lot of things but part of his work is making sure that you know a pharmaceutical company that is producing medications for human consumption they are meeting all the quality kind of the quality metrics and the compliance metrics set forth by various compliance organizations including the usfda and So currently he's serving as the chief of uh Global compliance at this organization and and he absolutely loves it he has been in the industry for I think more than 30 years so a lot of the lessons that I've gotten professionally I've received from him and I'm so thankful for that I was going to say because in the business world right or not I guess not the business world but in outside of those professions that you go to school specifically for them like nursing or law or it's kind of like you end up in a very different place than you than he probably imagined himself 30 years ago right so that's excellent to have that kind of you know repertoire of advice you can pull from that's wonderful and and also it's great that you did move around I think because do you feel like it gives you a better um perspective when when meeting patients from all over the country oh my gosh absolutely and you know I was prior to Michigan I was actually born in India and then my parents and I immigrated to the United States and thankfully my parents made sure that my sister and I spoke multiple languages that we stayed connected to our South Asian identity while also you know adjusting at least for me being kind of three having grown up in a different country for the first couple years of my life like making sure I also adjusted to American life if you will sometimes there is that like you know I'm I'm too American or I'm too Indian and finding that balance but with that being said oh my gosh I think moving around when it was happening it was so hard but as they say hindsight is 2020 and looking back I'm actually so so thankful that I moved around as much as I did I have the absolute privilege of having wonderful friends and connections not only personally but also professionally across multiple States you know all across the Midwest the East Coast now the west coast and I'm so thankful for that it's it gives me a very I think unique perspective on everything I do and I think having a South Asian identity having the ability to speak multiple languages I know that I think differently than some of my peers and I I think having that cultural identity helps me uh connect also with you know people a little bit more yeah I love that and I think that's very vital especially in La you know the nation's second largest city it's a hub for immigration and for tourism and so I think that that's really important to try to tie into those the identities that you have there I think that's really important so thanks for sharing that as well and and you know we encourage people to be proud of their identity and I've heard that UCLA does really good at that right yeah and kind of touching on the culture so I think the fellowship process for me was very intense and you know it was a big decision to make where I was going to do my fellowship having spent now a year in fellowship and almost another year in my postfellowship role oh my gosh the culture here is so incredible in my experience have had such a good time working here I think and this is probably true of a lot of academic medical centers but teaching is obviously a big part of AMC's and it's in their mission a lot of them have it as like a pillar for what they want to do as they serve patients and serve communities and UCLA health is's no exception to that I think what what I love the most is the teaching extends Beyond kind of just we teach clinical staff I think doing a fellowship I was able to learn from administrators and Senior leaders and people are kind people are welcoming and I think they're so attached to the Mission Vision and values and and it trickles down right it starts at our leadership it starts at the senior most level and because those leaders care so much and want to provide the best care their employees see that you know the managers see that the clinical staff see that and and it kind of trickles down apart from my you know day job another thing I have recently picked up in the last couple months is volunteering so I actually decided that I was big into volunteering in high school and college and during the pandemic all of that kind of stopped and obviously so but I kind of wanted to get back into giving and and being able to do something so another kind of aspect of how I get to interact with Incredible people at UCLA is through my volunteer role which is I I'm a ped's cuddler on at UCLA metel children's hospital and I you know go up to the floor every week and I and I sit with our babies and I cuddle them and I get to interact with the incredible nursing staff and you know the Care Partners and it it's the culture here is strong and it's beautiful how did you identify a volun you know that volunteering experience how did you find it yeah so I actually found it because I was talking to someone and you know they said that they were interest interested in doing it at their hospital and I was like oh my gosh will they take two volunteers and she was like let me find out for you and in the meantime I was also talking to one of my co-workers and one of my friends here at UCLA and I was like Hey like do we have a program like this at our health system and she was like your timing is impeccable because we literally are just restarting that program we had to put it on pause and you know uh kind of like change priori a little bit especially with Co and the pandemic and everything but it's going to be up and running do you want to like apply and kind of get cleared for that and I was like absolutely and again this was a connection the the person who put me in touch with the you know volunteer services was a connection I made during fellowship and it it was like a cooworker who turned into a good friend and I'm so thankful that she connected me and I was I'm able to do that every week yeah those connections and and that kind of luck and timing is is incredible so that's and what a what a really unique volunteer opportunity that's super cool before you you know got into the fellowship you actually had quite a bit of experience right I mean you weren't just doing school you had these three internship experiences I think totaling if you put them together about two years in total right so quite quite a way you know amount of experience what what about these stuck out to you kind of you know as knowledge that or or as projects that you really particularly enjoyed during these three internships what was especially impactful for you yeah thank you that's such a good question I guess I'll pick I'll pick two projects slash two of those internships that I really do want to highlight to show the diversity in the field of healthcare administration so first I'll start with a internship that I started while I was still in undergrad I was a senior at slooh and I um joined SSM Health uh and was there continuous quality improvement in which is a mouthful I realize and so I was doing a lot of quality improvement projects I had an incredible Mentor who is now like I believe like a system vice president for SSM and she and and you know throughout this kind of conversation I also want to highlight to everyone who's listening the importance of having great mentors Game Changer in our field and I think in life in general I think if you have someone who you can call a mentor which I am blessed you know to have a handful of them it it can really provide a very unique perspective and help shape your journey and so going back to this Mentor you know she let me pick a lot of my projects one of the cool kind of organizational tools that I was able to help set up was actually at the very end of my internship and unfortunately due to covid they did have to end the internship early but my last project with them was creating an organizational tool to help one of the first like command centers that came up for Co at SSM Health to help senior leaders organize how they were going to get their staff together how they were going to keep track of everything and I think like anyone who I mean all of us having lived through covid historical event but I think being in a pandemic and then being in health care even though it wasn't clinical to a certain extent it had a very lasting impact on how I view I think Emergency Management and its impact on the health system and so that was a very incredible experience another experience that I want to highlight so uh USC's mha program is unique in that instead of doing a summer internship which a lot of like mha and similar programs require students to do we actually have a 1,000 hour Residency program that you're kind of doing while you're still a full-time student so you really have to kind of be a be good at time management because you're balancing classes so you know you start in the summer between your uh first and second year and you continue either until you are done with your 1,000 hours or until your residency kind of wants to you know keep you my residency was very unique that it actually didn't start in the summer it started in the spring of my first year and it lasted until the spring of um my last year so through basically I was there until a month before GR graduation it was a general administrative residency but my biggest project although I did a lot of projects patient experience related to hcap surveys I also did like a weekly report with our CEO which was super fun we literally went and like interacted with staff recorded fun videos really to increase staff engagement and and get the CEO on the floor I think my most impactful project at that residency was actually in peroperative services so with our surgical Services team I think you know prior to this internship I didn't really think I I didn't really know a lot actually about surgical services and how administrators fit into that scene right when you think of surgery you're like oh you know you have your scrub nurses your o techs you have your surgeons and you kind of don't think about all the detail and the data that is necessary to to make an O function and so during that residency I had the opportunity to help the kind of the block committee that reviewed surgeon utilization schedules that you know approved surgeons requesting more time in the O you know took away time from surgeons and so I spent most of that internship looking at surgeon utilization presenting the data to our leadership team as well as you know the chief of surgery if you will and I learned so much from that about block schedule 7:00 a.m.</p> <p>start time all this incredible stuff that goes on in the world of peroperative medicine and I will say it was such a challenging project and but I wouldn't change it for the world right because I think I learned so much and here's what I'll say to early careerist who are maybe first years or starting their summer internships you know make the most of your time say yes to projects even if you're a little scared of them because the projects and the work that you do in your summer internship or for me in my residency will become the talking points that will help form a successful interview not only for postfellowship jobs and Consulting interviews but especially for Fellowship interviews what you do in that internship you will be able to speak on during your fellowship interview process I I guarantee it so make the most of your summer internship well let's talk about that too right because you had a very successful Fellowship run in terms of applic so how many did you submit and then how many round ones round twos did you get yeah I was incredibly blessed and I'm so thankful for that experience that I had the opportunity to interview with so many people so I ended up applying to 12 Fellowship organizations I had nine first round interviews out of the 12 so three that I just didn't hear from and that's okay and then I had six spinal round interviews where technically had it not been kind of covid times I would have had to go on site but because you know people were not flying candidates out I actually ended up very unique Fellowship interview experience I did all of my interviews over Zoom except the one at UCLA which was in person and that's very funny uh I guess it's good right because you ended up going there so you you saw it uh out of the the the round twos right did you get six offers as well so no I didn't get six offers but I got two which I'll take so I think one thing about Fellowship season that not isn't talked about a lot and I'd love to put it out there so people know you know sometimes you will get offers not only for interviews but also the actual fellowship and you will have to make some very tough decisions so I remember I actually had to turn down an organization for a final round interview cuz another organization was having their interviews at the exact same time and so I think like that's something that potential Fellowship applicants should be um aware of so just be mindful that you know for the final round of an interview Fellowship organizations are likely getting you know all of their leadership team together that's why they like to keep the interview interviews on one day it's a full day kind of back-to-back interviews with built-in breaks you will likely be interviewing 8 to five or at least like you know 8 to two or three you know which I did for most of my most of my fellowship interviews I think also there is kind of this phenomenon where you are offered often times this is my experience so others may have had a different experience but you may be offered a fellowship and you may still have interviews left and they kind of want an answer in 24 to 40 hours and so I think like there will be some tough choices that you know Fellowship applicants will have to make so please be mindful of that and and be mindful of you know what's the right fit for you where will you thrive yeah so what I was gonna say is some other people we've talked with have a hard time getting accepted to that second round or getting that final acceptance of course some people only submit you know one or two applications that are very targeted and they do usually get accepted because they have like a really strong personal connection to that school but other people are just looking for a fellowship in you know one of the fields you know that they like and so with those 12 applicant applications we were talking earlier about how your experiences in the internship summer internship was impactful for the interview and application can you talk about what you think was the reason you got so many interviews yeah absolutely number one stay as authentic as you can I think this is not only true for early careers but just in life I picked those organizations you're probably like okay 12's a lot I started with a list of 24 so I started with a list of 24 I took the list to my dad he glanced at it took a minute and he crossed off 12 organizations right off the bat and I was like Dad some of these organizations are really good why are you Crossing them off and he said I want you to go back I want you to look at this list and I want you to genuinely ask yourself are you going after these organizations because you want to be there and you feel it's a good fit or because they have a certain reputation that you think will look good on your resume and you know he was right a lot of those organizations I had I applied I probably wouldn't have even gotten a first round interview because I was applying to them with the intention of this is a good one I should have another backup and you know when you go in with that mindset then you you want everything you know you want to be like I want a backup and I want another backup so right from the start I urge anytime I talk to people about fellowships or just even job applications or life things I'm like be true to yourself so start there right I think from there when I interviewed so first round oftentimes will be with the current fellows or you know former fellows who will interview you cuz they've experienced the fellow Fellowship they kind of know the process anytime I had a first round interview I made it a point to of course like do your research you know figure out your why and with every organization on that list of 12 and then finally I would say on the nine that I did first round interviews with I had a specific why right I was like okay why am I applying to UCLA health and why is that different than XYZ organization another one that I applied to and I made it a point to communicate that with the first round interviewer I said you know UCLA health I and I'll use UCLA health as my primary example because that's where I ended up and I think it's best to share that but when I spoke to people at UCLA health and even in my personal statement that I submitted I talked about their efforts that that were active right their homeless Health collaborative their Health Equity you know diversity inclusion kind of initiative and what they're known for and so I think like first round right off the bat know your why know you know why do you feel called to this organization and if you become the fellow what do you hope to learn and accomplish and and I think that's what set me apart and then gave me the opportunity to move on to the final round and I'll I'll call these individuals out only because you know I interviewed with them and what they said really stuck to me multiple CEOs at final round hospitals interviews told me they said if you're in the final round as a fellow you have the qualifications to be here it is really coming down to it being a mutually beneficial situation where it's a good fit for both the candidate and the organization so I think another encouragement for people whether you get get to first round whether you make it to final and let's say you end up with a fellowship offer maybe you the fact that you are going through the process you need to give yourself Grace and you need to it it's commendable it is a rigorous process as someone who did not leave her house between the months of September and I think like the first week of November I understand so I think I also encourage candidates to not lose hope and I and I know this because I did this I there will be days during the fellowship application cycle where in one day you'll get two rejections and that same night someone will call you and say we want to invite you to the final round for this organization so it's truly a roller coaster but be genuine be authentic know your why and come with concrete and diverse examples to the interview questions and I think you will definitely be successful very very good advice that's and I really appreciate you kind of really explaining that because it's hard to do this for for even people with you know who have experienced applying to schools or who have done similar things it's a challenging process so thank you for sharing that can we talk real quick about that Fellowship to full role transition at UCLA it are you finding that the fellowship is is really popular at UCLA and that people are not people I guess but that there are a lot of fellows in the organization or that there are people who know fellows so do they have that retainment or is it uh you know more Spark what does that look like yeah absolutely so I'll start by saying that the fellowship I love the way the fellowship preceptor and the director of Hospital Ops drew the way he describes the fellowship I've kind of picked it up and so when people ask me I also use kind of his wording if you will but the way the UCLA health Fellowship is structured he calls it the the dream it do it Fellowship so right from the beginning you get to turn in your resume and kind of like a wish list right aims and goals that you hope to accomplish and this can be departments you want to work with it can be projects that you want experience with it can be shadowing opportunities and you submit this to you know Drew and and the team right at the beginning of the fellowship the fellowship is then structured that for the first month or so you are strictly doing meet in greets you're not doing any projects I loved that right and yeah it's a lot of meet and greets and by the end of the end of the one month or one and a half months you literally can say your elevator pitch and your introduction in your sleep which my co-fellows and I who by the way were from the Army Bor program which is another unique aspect to UCLA's Fellowship where they have the civilian fellow and then they usually have one to two fellows from army Baylor so I had two incredible co-fellows one from the Army and one from the Coast Guard and they were also getting their degrees mha MBA at uh at Baylor Army Baylor and so anyway we we had these meet and greets and during the meet and greets you also get to learn about the leaders at UCLA and then you can kind of also figure out what projects are available where your interest areas lie and what you hope to accomplish what what really set it apart for me was the fact that the leaders are trying to get to know you um right so yes to answer your question people know who the fellows are people know um you know how the fellows have kind of grown in the organization um we have many fellows that are kind of executive a part of the executive leadership team at this point and they did their Fellowship you know seven eight nine 10 years ago and so I think that's absolutely incredible there is a strong effort to keep fellows post Fellowship as well and of course you know life things happened some of our fellows have moved back to be close moved back like to a different Coast or you know a different city to be close to their family and that's obviously very understandable but I think there is a huge effort in keeping the fellows especially after that first year and so very thankful for that and every year when when our summer interns arrive and when our new fellows arrive you know we have lunches and we have opportunities to reconnect with each other to keep that Community going wow that is is beautiful and and I love hearing that that's really nice so I think that that's going to probably encourage a lot of people to uh apply to the fellowship program you guys probably to get so many applications but I want to talk too about your journey post Fellowship right you were the program manager that's your title now right can you share how you got into that role what department it's in and just share a bit about what that's that transition has been like yeah absolutely so I'll kind of back it up a little bit and I have to kind of set the scene during my fellowship because that's where I actually figured out that this is what I wanted this is an interest area for me so during my fellowship I did a lot of projects and I'm so thankful I got to do projects kind of in various wings of the hospital if you will um from International Health to working with orthon neuro all the way to cancer Services which is where I am now and so funny enough and again very blessed uh that my current role actually was a fellowship project that I had taken on so February of my fellowship year I was introduced to this program that UCLA health was trying to bring back because it was on a pause and the program is the Adolescent young adult oncology program so I'll refer to them in the short form which is AAS and you know I think this is a population unfortunately within the world of oncology that often times is forgotten they don't always fall in Pediatrics but they don't also fall in adult because the age range for this population is 15 to 39 so you can kind of see who would fall in the Peds World versus adult and you know some of the patients will start Peds and then transition into adult care right so started this project as a fellow and you know went through the postfellowship interview process and ended up Landing the role I think what's unique about program managers at UCLA health is you can be a program manager and have you know one program manager can have a very different kind of day-to-day than another one some may have direct reports others may not for me I don't have any direct reports at the moment my day-to-day kind of looks like there are a handful of meetings absolutely but a lot of it is process Improvement creating you know process Maps creating decision trees so I'll I'll use a specific example so one part of the Aya program is related to fertility care often times patients before they start chemo or radiation they have to make very difficult and you know important decisions around their fertility and their future so one project that you know I completed just now is creating fertility decision trees for our providers to help ensure that patients have these conversations with their providers and receive the fertility care you know that they so that they choose that they choose to have and so this is kind of like a dayto day right it's some days are headphones in classical music in which is what I love listening to when I'm like doing busy work and it's creating these slide decks it's creating these process Maps getting ready for meetings with not only administrative leaders but also sometimes physician leaders and then other days you're running around you're meeting a lot of people you're trying to engage shareholders within the hospital working closely with you know social work working closely with our Center for integrative oncology trying to figure out can we Bridge the gaps in our Aya care so every day is a little bit different and then my kind of goal is also not to get lost in the daytoday all the time and also planning long term so the Strategic piece I think of healthcare administration also comes in because while I'm doing these smaller projects on a day-to-day there's also the idea of okay how how do we look to the Future How do we make sure that this program is going to be sustainable and grow so we can reach all the AAS that not only come to our you know hospital here and our inpatient but also now you know with kind of the growing world of Ambulatory Care how do we make sure that patients in our clinics also have standard care that inpatients are receiving wow what an incredible role that's a very cool role I mean I'm thinking our audience is going to hear the same thing and and think that's really cool I actually would like to have you back on another time uh just to discuss that you know role in general in the Aya space because that's very sounds complex right especially when you think about like you were saying how so much Cancer Care is centered around the population that is you know most commonly getting cancer which is you know 30 40 years older than this population that you're working with so that is really impressive and I do want to thank you so much for sharing your extra time I know it's a little bit ear in the day there in LA than here but I do really really appreciate it and I you know I hope our audience really enjoys this I'm sure that they will yeah no I I feel like I need to thank you thank you so much for giving me an opportunity to share my journey it's very unique I think all of us have such an a unique journey and I always say this to people whenever I talk to them about health administration or just career things in general so I'll leave the audience here whoever is listening with this your story is absolutely your superpower so don't shy away from it and use that to navigate life and be a genuine and authentic leader in whatever part of healthcare you end up in I I know that this uh episode is often shared on LinkedIn and so I would I also encourage the early careerists who have questions about fellowships health admin internships or just want to chat and have a New Perspective please reach out I am um I'm a talker I I can talk about this all the time I've recruited tons of people to health admin in undergrad uh convinced a lot of people to change their major and so that's kind of the joke now uh with my academic advisor but please reach out if anyone wants to chat needs advice I am I am hoping to be the resource that I never had in someone who was on a similar path I had to navigate a huge chunk of Health admin and fellowship by myself and so giving back to other people is something I care about a lot and I hope to do so please reach out and again thank you for your time thank you for showing me appreciate it a lot</p>