Key Takeaways
- Recognize linen quality as a strategic driver of patient satisfaction and HCAHPS scores, given its intimate role in the patient experience.
When patients think about healthcare, their minds typically turn to the skill of the physician, the sophistication of medical technology, or the cleanliness of a facility. Rarely do they consider the importance of linens—hospital gowns, sheets, towels, and more. However, as explored in a recent episode of the CX Matters podcast (hosted by Cole Lyons of the American Journal of Healthcare Strategy), linen and laundry services are a crucial yet often overlooked aspect of patient care. In conversation with guest Jason Isherwood, CEO and founder of LinSights Health and ClearVu-IQ, the discussion revealed how proper linen management can dramatically influence patient experience, hospital operations, and even public health.
A hospital gown might seem inconsequential when compared to advanced surgical equipment or new pharmaceuticals. Yet as Isherwood explains:
“Besides the clinician; that gown, that sheet, that pillowcase—whatever that product is—may be one of the only things that intimately touch a patient.”
When a patient arrives at a hospital, they may be anxious, in pain, or uncertain about what lies ahead. Slipping into a freshly laundered, comfortable gown can enhance feelings of safety and trust, whereas stained or torn linens can do the opposite, raising concerns about quality of care or cleanliness. The patient’s impression extends beyond that single piece of fabric, shaping how they perceive the institution as a whole. It’s one more layer of an experience that can make or break patient satisfaction and influence HCAHPS (Hospital Consumer Assessment of Healthcare Providers and Systems) scores.
The linen and laundry service sector is currently valued at around 5 to 6 billion dollars in the United States, and it’s projected to grow to 8 billionin the coming years. That growth mirrors the increasing scale and complexity of the healthcare industry itself. Yet, despite its size, linen management is extraordinarily fragmented. According to Isherwood,
“It’s a very regionalized approach,” meaning that most linen providers operate in distinct geographic pockets. Only one or two organizations have the breadth to cover multiple states or national markets.
For large health systems that straddle different regions—think Jefferson or Penn Medicine in the Philadelphia area—this decentralized model poses significant problems. A single health system may rely on multiple providers with varying supply routes, different quality assurance processes, and inconsistent products. Standardization of linens—so critical to patient experience—is nearly impossible in this fractured environment.
The complexity of linen supply can lead to lapses in quality. Ripped seams, faint stains that never quite washed out, or missing pieces like pillowcases or bed sheets all negatively impact patient perceptions. A “clean” item that still bears visible discoloration can be unsettling, even if the product has been properly sanitized.
“When you follow the product through the actual processing facility,” Isherwood notes, “that’s where you see issues you may never notice in a mere spreadsheet analysis.” This underscores the gap between data and reality. While hospitals often track usage numbers to control costs, many lack the time or personnel to audit laundry facilities, inspect linens on arrival, or investigate process inefficiencies at each step—particularly on an ongoing basis.
Beyond simple aesthetics, linen management can influence clinical operations and patient flow. “It’s not just about one gown that costs 40 cents to wash; in aggregate, it’s huge,” Isherwood says. Consider these scenarios:
Modern healthcare runs on data. Yet for linen management, much of the data remains lagging, usually reviewed in arrears at quarterly business reviews. By the time a health system identifies over- or under-utilization trends, 13 weeks—or more—have passed. This delay means the system struggles to adjust inventory properly. If administrators cut linen supply based on data that’s already outdated and then flu season arrives, they can quickly end up with shortages.
Isherwood points out that “People tend to focus on the data piece, and data does tell you a story, but the issue is there’s not enough people power. There’s not enough staff to dive into that data to follow through.” Supply chain managers oversee countless purchase-service categories, so linen often receives only cursory attention—a quick fix or cost cut, not a holistic solution.
The new frontier is a software platform that leverages artificial intelligence and real-time analytics to continuously track linen flow, such as ClearVu-IQ. By treating hospitals like hotels—analyzing rooms, patient admissions, discharges, and historical usage—this system can predict, almost immediately, whether a floor needs more gowns or fewer towels. Isherwood envisions automated alerts pinpointing anomalies, enabling hospital staff to focus on specific problem areas, such as a single floor whose blanket usage skyrockets, rather than investigating the entire facility.
“Changing behavior is tough,” says Isherwood. “Especially across large systems. So if we can automate these insights, if we can make it so you can see issues in near real-time, you can move quickly to solve them.”
By integrating supply chain software with patient flow data, the platform can forecast linen needs during high-acuity moments or high-volume seasons (e.g., flu season). Instead of always reacting to shortfalls, hospitals could proactively position linens where they are most needed.
One of the most compelling aspects of a real-time software solution is the ability to share benchmarking data across a market. Isherwood cites the example of Chicago, where major systems like Northwestern, Loyola, and Rush Health depend on one or two major providers. With enough participation, each health system could compare its linen usage and quality control metrics against other institutions—anonymously or with specific performance indicators.
This benchmarking has value beyond cost savings. It offers public health insights, too. Linen usage might correlate with changing levels of acuity, seasonal illness patterns, or efficiency improvements. Though it would be an oversimplification to call linen usage a reliable leading indicator for disease outbreaks, having near real-time data on a major consumable could provide helpful signals to hospital administrators and public health officials alike.
Hospitals place enormous emphasis on infection control, yet many healthcare professionals and even quality teams rarely consider linen a top priority. As Isherwood notes, “Linen can be so commoditized, people forget the impact it has on infection prevention or patient comfort.” Though infection prevention professionals are well-versed in the importance of properly laundered textiles, routine decision-makers often assume linen is “just there” and thus fail to see its deeper ramifications.
The conversation between Cole Lyons and Jason Isherwood drives home a crucial point: Healthcare is a vast ecosystem, and small-seeming elements can have an outsized impact. In a complex setting of rising costs, staffing challenges, and growing patient expectations, streamlined linen management is no longer a “nice-to-have”—it’s a “must-have.”
As new technologies emerge to track and optimize linen supply in near real-time, hospitals can reduce waste, minimize patient risk, and improve the overall care experience. By achieving greater consistency and transparency in how textiles are supplied, laundered, and distributed, health systems can bolster both patient and staff satisfaction.
Linen may be an unseen backbone of patient care, but its impact is far from trivial. The experience of slipping into a clean, well-fitting gown can set a reassuring tone for patients—just as encountering a stained or inadequate supply of linens can erode trust and confidence in care. Proper linen management also touches infection control, hospital workflows, and operational costs in powerful ways.
Forward-thinking innovators like Jason Isherwood with LinSights Health and ClearVu-IQ are paving the way for smarter, data-driven solutions. By pairing on-the-ground expertise with artificial intelligence and real-time analytics, these emerging models promise a major leap forward in how hospitals handle everything from surgical drapes to everyday bed sheets.
In the end, linen is more than just fabric—it symbolizes comfort, dignity, and safety. When managed well, it becomes a seamless part of the healing process, fulfilling its role so effectively that patients barely notice it. Yet behind the scenes, that single sheet is backed by a complex system of suppliers, staff, and technology. Hospitals that grasp this complexity—and treat linen as a strategic asset, not a commodity—stand to enhance both their bottom line and the well-being of their patients.
<p>people tend to just focus on the data piece and data does tell you a story right but the issue is that there's not enough there's not enough people power welcome to the CX matters podcast a production of the American Journal of healthc care strategy with your host Cole Lions hello everyone this is Cole from the American Journal of healthcare strategy here on the CX matters podcast we're going to be looking at a really important part of patient experience that many of us might not have considered before and I've brought on J uh Jason isherwood he is an innovator in the area working on some really cool projects Jason can you please introduce yourself and give us a little bit about what you're working on right now absolutely absolutely thanks for having me and before we even do that I want to make sure I give a quick shout out to to to somebody that kind of introduced you and I together um and that's Eric Harrison over at Thrive so just a community for Founders and uh I I happen to grab on Nicole when I saw him and been following you ever since so thanks for having me on so I'm Jason isherwood I'm the CEO and founder of Linds sit's health we're a linen and laundry advisory firm um some little bit of background on me for about the last two decades um I've worked with one of the leading providers of Health Care line and laundry services starting in the service department so the CX right Services kind of transferred trans the name is transitioned over the years um and ultimately advancing to a senior leadership uh role where I led our Enterprise sales customer Su success functions in that role you know I had a unique opportunity to kind of reshape how we approached our business developing a model to address at the time the rapidly changing healthc care landscape right that's kind of like when you look at a span of 20 years the AFF Affordable Care Act really changed a lot of things for everybody um including the supplier side you know throughout that journey I was able to collaborate with many of the nation's largest Health Systems gpos you know helping them navigate the evolving needs of like healthc care providers um you know the experiences that I've had have given me deep insights into operations uh Challen es and possibilities within the healthcare line and laundry category which is which is fairly unique uh and today I kind of bring a new perspective as a consultant right so I'm sitting on I'm sitting on the advisory side now where I'm working for the providers not for the suppliers and our mission really is to bring transparency um and Innovation to the healthcare linen and laundry category and then leveraging technology and expertise to drive some meaningful change within that category thank you so much for for coming on I know your schedule's really big bu and it is such an it's such an interesting category too because people do not think about and really in their daily lives they don't and um and it also the institutional level they don't think about Lin as being something that has an impact on experience or really even an impact on process Improvement and I had uh a fellow on not too long ago Justin uh Justin came on and and you know he started off doing a lot with linen and used it kind of uh to to project his career forward because of the amount of process Improvement he was able to do in the linen space the question I have is what are the problems in the industry right now with linen that are negatively impacting the patient experience a great it's a great question and you know before I answer it I'll try to just to take on what you just said talking about you know we really don't think about linen um and and I think even being in the in the world for so long you do get you do get a little bit complacent even on the supplier side and I'll tell you just to level set and start somewhere what what this really means to the patients and it goes back probably about 15 years ago when I was sitting at chop um and on the supplier side and I kind of joked you know we had about 15 people in the room and I kind of joked as we're doing our implementation that I know hey I know we're here just talking about L and laundry guys like it's not a huge deal and I'm sure it's not what you wanted to speak about today and there was somebody in the room her name is Nancy schneck she's since retired she was their senior director environmental services and she really quietly just kind of said you know Jason yes that's what we're here to talk about and here to speak about but think about it from this perspective besides the clinician when when somebody comes into one of our facilities besides the clinician that gown that sheet that pillowcase whatever that product is in the linen side is one of the only other things that intimately touch your patient so if you kind of just start there right there there's the starting point from that point on I've kind of changed my whole thought process right I was getting into a a weird space of like well it's just the same same um and she kind of reframed that for me so give big uh big props to Nancy uh for helping me there that leads right into like you know where are the some of the issues a couple things one you know the Lin to to when you look at the Lin in laundry space you almost got to start kind of with the supplier side and understand what's happening there it's a very regionalized approach there's only one company that just recently started uh expanding with m&a that's kind of gone Nationwide there only really one company that does it everything else is very Regional so what that means is this you might have U for instance our home we were talking before we got on here kind of our home turf here in Philadelphia you got pen you got Jefferson you got Mainline and like think about a pen we'll use them for an example they're very spread out right you have Lancaster you have them over here you got them in Jersey and Jefferson's no different well if you look at a Lin and laundry provider sometimes because of that regionalization of where they Ser their service areas you have multiple vendors now within your facility servicing those products which means when you start looking at scalability of we want the patient experience to be consistent well how do you how do you do that when you have multiple vendors that maybe don't all have the same products maybe they don't all have the same quality standards um so there's a lot there when you just look at the supplier side as driving some of the issues with actually inside the health system itself and what's interesting is we were talking before as well what what other industry is5 billion doar and increasing to the rate of eight billion do I mean a huge industry right that's this decentralized it's it's exactly a huge decentralized industry that currently is about five six billion spend across the country but it's going to be about the next two years um and and it's very misunderstood when when I say it's misunderstood even from the supply chain side um it's definitely it's definitely misunderstood uh because they're they're managing so many especially in the purchase service they're managing so many different product lines and so many vendors when they get into the space what usually happens is it's kind of like we'll take some data analytics we'll drive you know two to three% and we'll move on because we really can't figure out how to just make this thing kind of scalable across our our health system some have figured it out not saying that they all haven't but but in in general generalization when you think about the industry um that regionalization really is driving some of the issues with inside the systems and so how how are you solving that because that's there's a lot of issues to why it's regional right it's challenging to ship linen and move linen around compared to something like surgical equipment or at least that's traditionally what it's thought right it's it's a it's a a larger product and it's you know can the dimensions and from what I understand logistically make it a bit more challenging than something like you know surgical equipment yeah so I I'll tell you this and I not going to make it a sales pitch so I'll make sure I stay away from that I'll just say in general when you're looking at when you're looking at that category um it right within supply chain or Environmental Services or materials management to take that data and instead of just squeezing out two three% % in savings to take that data and really drive all the way Downstream to point of use right so what the difference is when you say what are you doing differently you know what the way the approach that we take is not only looking at data but it's that on-site piece right following uh we we joke around um here at Linds sites we always joke around about like we want to be the dirty laundry bag right we want to be we want to start at the dirty laundry we want to follow it through the whole process because you h on you kind of said something at the beginning about just continuous Improvement pieces of this too you know there's efficiencies you drive through the operation as well moving that product but you also find issues when you follow the product through the actual processing facility and when you do that then it's like the quality stuff starts coming up too you start seeing stuff that you didn't see before which helps you understand why it's happening down at the at the actual facility itself for for people who don't sorry yeah for people who don't work in a hospital or because even like myself I have no idea really what are the quality issues that we're going to see in Linens right because you know you think about surgical surgical equipment it might be broken or you think about room cleanliness and it's dirty what does that look like for Linux so if you look at it's quality issues you're looking at ribs tears stains um they're not being fully inspected before they're shipped out like what are what is your quality what's your QA program with a supplier sign to make sure that we're getting very minimal out to the patient so imagine showing up right it's already a stressful situation you're showing up yeah let's say you have to have a surgery and there's a surgery pack there's your gown pack everything's there at in the facility you go put that gown on and there's like a rip in it right or there's a big stain on and there's a blood stain or there's an iodine stain because it couldn't come out in the wall wash or wasn't washed uh it doesn't mean it's dirty it just there's an image thing right so that becomes a quality issue and you're really again that goes back to what are you doing differently being in the facilities the suppliers and actually seeing what they're doing asking the right questions getting your ITP folks out there right your infection prevention folks out there getting them out there looking at what's going on that's going to help you Downstream at the point of use with the actual product to make sure you're minimizing it do I think you can ever get it to go away completely that would be impossible right but what programs we have in place to make sure that it's not hitting the patient right we can find it before we get there so that's important yeah gumo walk right thinking back to Six Sigma walk go yeah I always it's like the most powerful lesson in Six Sigma right is that everything you do if you actually go and see it and you're not in your office um that can gam walk FES you and I can do this all day right like we can f exactly exactly right a huge thing PA you hit on it is like how do you how do you sustain we're going to take that 5S process we're going to do all this stuff right but that last piece is the sustained piece and that is the biggest part especially in this category that is consistently missed it's we go in we do some evaluation we walk out right this is what normal systems do and then it never sustains because they don't have a partner there to kind of help them through that process or they move on to another category that they're managing rightfully so I mean there's only so much bandwidth they don't have enough bandwidth to handle all of it well and so people are concerned about costs right and that's that's the other issue is Staffing is tough costs are tough we can't afford to bring on a you know director of I mean some institutions do have directors of Land Services but um a lot of places can't afford it and so that that comes to the kind of the question for you is how are you solving this you know Consulting is expensive technolog is expensive what do you see as kind of a solution since you're offering technology and you're offering Consulting that could save money or not be overly expensive well I'll tell you I uh a customer I'm working with right now a large health system in uh Chicago um mentioned to me when we were kind of going through this phase of getting to know each other and figuring out where we would fit and helping them out um and and a couple you know he mentioned he's like listen you know to get the budget to budget for another full person is sometimes almost impossible right now I mean just if you're watch you've just read Beckers the other day not to give them a plug but I guess I am if you read Beckers the other day look at all the layoffs that just happened right in the last two weeks all over the place layoffs are happening within within Healthcare and so in their mind was like and then you bring that person in well they're not going to probably like you said I'm not gonna get the budget just to bring in a linen expert just full-time linen expert that's all they're going to do he said the likelihood is slim but if I can find somebody that is less obviously than uh than having a full-time person all the time that can come in give me a full evaluation is what we do and then after that we have a performance partner plan so we actually stay on with them year-over-year to help them manage kind of and sustain now something you hit on it and something that um we've been working on for the past year um that's going to be pulled out here probably in q1 and next year launch is a software platform right like how do you take all this and how do you really one build in real-time transparency to what's happening in in the facility but also drive use data analytics to drive kind of an AI Power Platform telling you actually what you need instead of you just guessing what you need um Cole in this industry I'll tell you you know it's everything's in our rears when what I mean by that is you sit down for a quarterly Business review and they sit with you you're the you're the sourcing director and they're like cool here's the spin this is what we did well this what we didn't we're looking at our kpis and and we're saying well this is what we need to do to adjust and usually utilization out it's just out outside of the realm of what the budget is right and what happens is then they have to adjust going forward but that's a 13 weeks where it just like it's just you're so far behind right and then you adjust and guess what now it's flu season so you try to bring the linen down and all of a sudden now you're short now your nurses and your clinical staff's impacted so we're we're bringing to bear in the next year a platform that's gonna help manage all that without a lot of people touching it and that's the goal so and not not to name names uh of course uh I'm actually you know a fan a lot of these institutions but um we've seen the ne ative effects of what happens when we do do cost cutting through linen is uh sometimes we go in with these aggressive Cuts Like you said during offseason and then all of a sudden uh The Season's hit and you know we've actually had staff um at some of these institutions uh protest and and you know uh the unions have had to get involved and uh thankfully none uh here in Philly that I know of but in other areas of the country we've seen that this has caused crisis this has caused PR issues right for these institutions when they make these course adjustments but how is I guess how is the technology even set up to provide a solution for that right because that's a complicated amount of variables that the technolog is goingon to have to control for absolutely so you know the way we're approaching this uh this problem is and again trying to take humans out of it because changing behavior is really hard it's really tough to do that especially scaling across the whole health system like a Jefferson for 30 you know now going to be 39 hospitals right like with L High Valley merger um that that just occurred so for us it's about it's it's a simple process of taking data into the system and treating hospitals so if you really know a lot about linen if you ever want to know a lot about it the Affordable Care actually changed how we kind of Benchmark linen and like are we doing well or not and that's around adjusted patient days per pound is what it's called right it's an Antiquated formula that honestly the supplier almost can't even do anything about it to get you down so that solves kind of the the issue of how you're going to get insights is because you're going to have well I guess here's the question let's say I'm in Chicago and I got Northwestern in I I just spoke with someone at rush before this interview it was the chief uh Chief uh Innovation officer at rush and so you know Rush alone is a big system are you gonna be able to use data from all the the areas in Chicago regionally yeah so uh great man look at you you're all over it uh you're right you go way ahead so absolutely So the plan would be to to take that data because it would be real time data right so we're using real-time data and historical data but we're continually Gathering that data taking that data and then be able to leverage it as benchmarking so in the region so if I look let's take Chicago for real for instance I won't name the supplier we'll just say there's one there's there's a couple there's a bunch of players there like there is everywhere it's very regionalized but there's maybe one or two main suppliers for the acute side so you got the acute you got your nonacute ambulatory right so there's there's different players within each system well that major player might be servicing three or four of those systems in that City so absolutely we could take that we we'll see how that how that supplier operates based on what we're seeing coming back you know is there consistent shortages is there do we have what we need is there a quality issue right so all that stuff will be in the system and we'll be able to leverage it regionally and then the plan would be nationally as well as benchmarking data on what really is occurring is this a leading or you know Lin in general leading lagging or kind of just real time from a public health approach what kind of indicator do you think it would be I would say Well it the issue is that the data itself is usually not available for like 13 weeks so it becomes lag right like like it happened already it happened three weeks ago right now it's lagging yeah it's lagging so our goal is to make it real time now somebody told me when I was when I was speaking about yeah again I won't there there's some systems that are gonna help kind of help beta this and I don't want to mention their names right now but but somebody there mentioned to me like you know what Jason if you can get me the data like four weeks in our years I'd take it so I mean for for us our goal is to be as Real Time same day as possible depending on how often I can get the data so if I can get the data every hour then you're going to see every hour data updates within your within the platform does linen use and this is a hypothetical you Pro I mean you might know the answer to this you've been in the industry a long time does linen use correlate with Acuity so if somebody is like really dying here in in a really emergency situation not to be crude but are there linen use is going to be higher than someone who's just in for a you know minor cut absolutely I mean it's so interesting you know you know it's uh some of this is education too um educating folks on like what products really are positioned for which like kind of modality what are you doing in that in that scenario but in an emergency scenario people just take what they can and I remember years ago there's a surgery center in BC that the bath blankets were like through the roof like it was nuts like for a surgery center what we found out was when they had a really like you said Acuity when it was a really dire case there was a lot of blood loss they were using the bath blankets on the floor to soak up the blood is what they were doing so they were just throwing them down on the ground so they didn't slip and they didn't fall but they could soak up that that being said you know when I do when we kind of do engagements and we see that's when you're on the ground and see that you can say okay we understand there's an issue here there's actually a product you can use that's going to cost you 50% less instead of using those bath blankets so yes you do see you do see correlations between you'll see kind of an anomaly right and and and our software platform that we're going to come out with next year um Clear View IQ it's going it's going to kind of help us pinpoint those anomalies and instead of a health system saying to them saying well I don't know where to start to even look where the problem is where's our leakage where is it happening they're going to be able to pinpoint with the software like okay it's floor two in this facility let's send our our Seal Team in there to go figure out what's going on like what's going on in that floor that the linen is just out of control we can't figure it out um so we'll never solve linen loss we'll never solve that's not going to be something that I'm I'm touting that we're going to solve but I do think that we'll be able to point problems out really fast to be able to mitigate long-term spend and long-term losses just to the audience uh this is not a sponsored episode and one of the reasons you know we don't do a lot of non-sponsored episodes with with technology vendors uh but the reason that I really wanted to is because you can see the implications of this public health implications cost saving of course patient experience also think about quality implications right using the right linen has an implication on quality so to the audience this is a big deal and it's a big deal because it's an area that people have not looked at for a solution to this you know our you know our our Public Health researchers looking at I'm sure there are hopefully there'll be more after this episode after this technology gets out there we're at the 20 minute Mark so I want to ask you a question just kind of about yourself you've been in the industry you likely you know you were a director of key account management for a while vice president of Enterprise sales and customer service you have the senior rle so you could have just uh collected you know kind of the check and and done good work for these institutions but instead you've gotone and done something on your own very challenging to do that why did you decide to do this you know I I it was interesting when I I kind of left so a little bit more background when I was in on the supplier side for 20 years um and I left and I I went into kind of healthcare Tech a couple startups at that time and uh learned a lot there right hence my my technology stuff we're doing now and and I I I was separated from it a little bit for for probably about six to nine months and I kind of thought to myself like I I really enjoy solving problems I think there's a huge area of opportunity here um I'm highly involved in our National Organization which is arm so the association for Healthcare Resource materials managers um and and this is the kind of stuff that we bring to bear like bringing this this knowledge or these these case studies and being able to really affect change and it does go all the way and I think Nancy schneck is in my head she's always in my head now like where it's like Jason this affects people like this actually touches patients and is there a better way and I think this category in this industry has operated in in a way where they haven't really had to change that much they've changed we've changed some Technology's got better in plants and stuff like that but they haven't had to really change a lot um basically because they were so regionalized right so and and and systems couldn't wrap their hands around it so for me it's almost like it's it's a mission of change it's like I know this can be different um and maybe I couldn't make it as different as I wanted to on the supplier side but now if I'm I'm representing and helping providers I think I think the providers are the way they're the ones that are going to kind of dictate to the suppliers and say hey we want to be different we want to be better and this is how we want to be better um there's there's technology we can leverage as well and something we didn't we didn't touch on is you know H H Hai is another huge thing right making sure those Healthcare you know those those infection rates because there's there's a tie here right there's a tie it's like even like the curtains in your room right that having those change and clean so ensuring that you have the quality but the clean and process to a standard that's it's a huge thing uh being bring process to a standard but you got to go on site to figure all that out you can't figure it out from your office downtown or your your remote work site you just can't like out there I I have to ask this you know I took um a long course from johon Hopkins and Healthcare quality uh great course great education but we didn't talk about Linens um why why is linen kind of and even genitori Services they're kind of grouped in the same bucket and and they're often like the last thing anybody in quality seems to talk about any hypothesis on why yeah it's you know I think it's just been I think it's been so commoditized where it's just like a pen and paper it's like well the pen is there on the desk the notebook's there it's just there and I don't and I think that in aggregate it's huge right but when you bring when you kind of Zoom down it's like one piece it's one gown that's 40 cents to process right so I think in people's mind it becomes very commoditized where it's not that big of a deal I'll tell you this are you our affection prevention professionalists you know apic is huge on this so you can read a lot of research at apic um you know the the fact that they are being hlac is another company on the healthcare laundry accreditation Council they're they're accrediting Supply suppliers make sure they're processing it correctly they're testing it um great organization and if you're if you're on the provider side you're doing a contract for linen they better be they better be uh accredited is the way I would is the way I would look at it I just I think it is very not top of mine but I will tell you this this is what I would tell you so for from that perspective it probably is not something people think about all the time but I'll tell you if when you look at spend and you talk to gpos you talk to Chief supply chain officers or directors it's like in the top three top three for for what they're talking what they're speaking about is like we need to figure it out and we need to figure it out now because it's out of control so I think it in different pockets it's important um but if you didn't have the Gown when you needed it it would be important right so it affects that experience that the patient has a consistent patient experience is what you want across your organization and the gown something well and that's how you go from that kind of vertical organization to a more Innovative organization is when instead of having it just be the CFO or the chief supply chain officer you know dealing with it on their own and having to to kind of struggle to to change some of these things now you have everybody involved and when we all can tackle something together things usually go a bit better so another reason why that Consulting is probably very helpful um really appreciate you coming on Jason you're really incredible stuff you're doing and I just like how you've you've kind of taken a really entrepreneurial approach to kind of a very small sector of the larger Health Care problem and then in in a way impacted far above its weight I think it's really great stuff oh that thanks no I appreciate it and I I would encourage everybody you know it's not about using one person or other but look at your look at your your linen laundry providers dig into it get out there in the field um it affects patient it does affect the patient it affects the experience um it can directly impact your patient satisfaction scores as well I've seen it actually happen I've seen it listed I've run tests so I know it happens um make sure you have the right product where you need it um and uh and you know even sizing is important as well the right sizes right so that's part of the patient experience having the right gowns is uh definitely important so no thanks for having me on this has been great of course and let's have you back on in the future oh yeah I'm ready I'll anytime you need me</p>
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