Key Takeaways
- Targeting mid-market employers with customizable virtual care platforms allows organizations to capture an underserved segment while offering tailored, cost-effective solutions.
Virtual first care and telemedicine services have expanded far beyond their original boundaries, revolutionizing how patients and providers approach healthcare. What once seemed like a futuristic notion—treating people through virtual visits—is increasingly becoming the norm for many healthcare interactions. For some people, access to telehealth services means the difference between a quick online doctor visit from home and a long, costly trip to an urgent care or emergency department. In this article, we explore how one organization, Recuro Health, is expanding digital health solutions nationwide and breaking barriers around accessibility. Through the lens of Kate Sowerwine MD's work, we see how telemedicine can serve employers, brokers, and mid-market sectors, all while improving patient and physician experiences and health outcomes.
Most medical professionals do not initially set out to become leaders in telehealth. Many begin in more traditional, clinical roles, gradually discovering how healthcare technology can complement patient care. That is the case with Dr. Kate Sowerwine, a board-certified allergist and immunologist who completed her training at Georgetown University and later a fellowship at the The National Institutes of Health. Her journey into virtual first care began about eight years ago when she joined a startup called Wellvia.
Wellvia provided urgent care appointments via phone or video, giving patients a convenient alternative to traditional in-person visits for non-emergency issues like rashes, urinary tract infections, or minor illnesses. The timing was opportune: telemedicine services were already on the rise and became critical during the COVID-19 pandemic. With Wellvia's subsequent acquisition by Recuro Health, Dr. Sowerwine stayed on, guiding the clinical team and expanding virtual health solutions across all 50 states. Today, she serves as Chief Medical Officer at Recuro Health, overseeing more than 1,500 clinician state licenses that serve urgent care, behavioral health, and virtual primary care patients.
Recuro Health is not just about urgent care. After acquiring Wellvia, the organization set its sights on building out additional healthcare services that could be delivered through their virtual first care platform. Key expansions include:
This evolution in virtual health care options highlights Recuro's ability to adapt to changing healthcare landscapes. By bringing in new clinical capabilities, they can manage a continuum of health needs—whether someone calls about a sudden rash or requires long-term condition management for chronic diseases like hypertension or diabetes.
Telemedicine ventures require more than just technology—they need passionate advocates behind them. Dr. Sowerwine's own journey was partly inspired by her mother's struggles within the traditional healthcare system. From a young age, Dr. Sowerwine found herself navigating referrals, administrative hoops, and scheduling complications on her mother's behalf. These early experiences fueled her desire to make healthcare more accessible and patient-friendly.
In describing her motivation, Dr. Sowerwine notes that telehealth's inherent flexibility allows her and her colleagues to meet patients where they are—literally and figuratively. For individuals with mobility or transportation barriers, virtual care can provide timely, cost-effective solutions to everyday health problems. For families juggling childcare, full-time work, and tight schedules, connecting virtually with a clinician removes the need to take time off or make complicated arrangements for an in-person appointment.
A unique aspect of Recuro Health's approach is its focus on serving mid-market employers, brokers, and TPAs (Third-Party Administrators). Where some large telehealth companies may aim for enormous volumes—often catering to very large self-insured employers—Recuro thrives in offering a customizable platform for smaller or mid-sized groups, often numbering in the range of a few thousand to tens of thousands of employees.
Why does this matter? For many mid-market organizations, creating robust health plans that include virtual care is challenging. With fewer employees than large corporations, mid-market companies may be overlooked by larger telehealth providers. Recuro leans into this space, working closely with each organization to customize the suite of services—urgent care, virtual behavioral health, virtual primary care, and at-home diagnostic kits—according to that group's specific needs and budget.
This flexibility extends to how Recuro structures its plans. Most employers pay a monthly, per-member subscription fee. The organization's job is to use virtual health services to limit unnecessary in-person visits, helping control costs and reduce absenteeism. By ensuring members can connect with board-certified physicians in under 10 minutes for urgent care, or schedule virtual consultations within two days, Recuro addresses many of the access and cost challenges that mid-market employers face.
Physician burnout is a growing concern across healthcare. Long hours, administrative burdens, and the emotional toll of patient care have led to high turnover rates, especially in primary care and emergency care settings. Dr. Sowerwine emphasizes that physician well-being is a cornerstone of Recuro's model.
One key advantage is the flexibility that telemedicine provides clinicians. They can often work from home in any U.S. state, with schedules that adapt to personal needs. Because Recuro employs a subscription-only model tied to specific member organizations, clinicians are not suddenly overwhelmed by an unbounded surge in patient volume. This controlled, predictable flow helps keep call and wait times low while maintaining quality care.
Moreover, Dr. Sowerwine remains engaged clinically, regularly conducting virtual doctor visits herself. This hands-on approach allows her to set an example, demonstrating she shares the same demands and workflows as her colleagues. As Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Sowerwine also works to solicit feedback from clinicians, refining policies and processes that might otherwise impede efficient care.
Telemedicine's core promise is to enhance access. For busy parents, rural populations, or individuals without reliable transportation, visiting a traditional clinic or urgent care facility can be difficult or even impossible. By comparison, picking up a phone or logging onto a virtual health platform is often simpler, less stressful, and more affordable.
Recuro offers various ways to interact with clinicians:
This versatility ensures that patients are not locked into a single mode of care. If a parent wants to discuss a rash on their child's skin, they can do a quick video call. If a senior patient has difficulty with technology, a phone call might suffice. With ongoing care, patients can schedule telehealth visits at times that work best for them, including evenings and weekends.
Preventive care is not just about annual checkups. It often involves consistent health screenings for common conditions such as diabetes, high cholesterol, and hypertension. However, many patients rarely follow through with their lab work if it requires scheduling an in-person appointment at a lab site. Recuro's solution: at-home lab testing kits for cholesterol (lipid panels) and hemoglobin A1c. Patients simply place a few drops of blood on a special card, mail it back to the lab, and receive their results in the patient portal.
This service offers two major benefits:
In conjunction with these kits, Recuro also offers blood pressure cuffs for high-risk individuals and advanced genetic testing (pharmacogenetics and hereditary cancer screenings). All these measures work together to paint a comprehensive picture of each patient's health, empowering clinicians and patients to make informed decisions in a timely manner.
For all its advantages, telemedicine has historically faced a big hurdle: sharing patient health data with outside providers. Electronic Medical Records (EMRs) remain fragmented across hospital systems, and many clinics and health systems do not seamlessly exchange records. Recuro's immediate solution is to provide patients direct access to their records through an online portal. If they wish to share those records with a local specialist or a primary care physician outside Recuro's network, they can download and share them or request Recuro's call center to fax them securely.
While full interoperability remains an elusive goal industry-wide, Recuro's platform-based approach ensures that a patient's telehealth data is at least readily available to them, bridging some of the gaps until larger EMR systems become more interconnected.
Recuro Health's journey, as explained by Dr. Kate Sowerwine, illustrates the rapid growth and evolution of digital health solutions. The willingness to serve mid-market organizations, the emphasis on physician satisfaction, and the addition of proactive, preventive services set the company apart. Far from being a one-off solution only for urgent care needs, Recuro offers a broad continuum of care, allowing patients to address mental health, chronic diseases, and preventive screenings all from the same integrated healthcare program.
Virtual first care is far from a passing trend. As new healthcare technology surfaces—including remote care tools, better wearables, and more nuanced data analytics—telehealth providers like Recuro will continue to redefine what is possible. The result could be an environment where most routine healthcare takes place virtually, ensuring immediate, convenient access for patients who would otherwise encounter significant barriers.
For employers, brokers, or anyone in the mid-market space seeking to enhance healthcare options for their members, Recuro Health's model provides valuable insights. The benefits—rapid physician access, simplified preventive screenings, and improved mental health support—all converge into a comprehensive strategy that addresses cost savings, employee well-being, and productivity.
In an age where traditional healthcare systems are often stretched thin, this new generation of telemedicine champions the idea that healthcare should be flexible, accessible, and integrated with real-time data. Dr. Sowerwine's passion, fueled by her personal experiences and her drive to remove obstacles for patients, exemplifies how virtual care can transform lives by meeting individuals where they are—on their phones, laptops, or even through mailed-out lab kits.
As virtual health solutions continue to evolve, one lesson remains clear: enhancing access has the power to improve health outcomes, reduce costs, and bring about a more patient-centric healthcare system.
<p>some people they don't even know they have high hemoglobin A1c and they wouldn't take the step to get into a lab so that's very helpful to get people back engaged in their [Music] Healthcare hello everyone this is Cole from the American Journal of healthc care strategy joined by a really special guest uh who's been through so many technical glitches reschedulings with me to join us so it's it's really an honor uh Dr Kate sourwine uh Dr sourwine could you please just introduce yourself in your role in what you're doing currently sure thank you Cole I appreciate you inviting me on my name is Kate sarne I'm a board certified allergist immunologist as well in Internal Medicine I started in the teley medicine path about eight years ago I was with a startup called wvia and about two years ago welia was acquired by ruro health so I've been the chief medical officer of the same group of Physicians for about seven and a half years how many Physicians is under your uh purview um so we have all 50 states for Behavioral Health and Urgent Care as well as virtual primary care we have about over 1500 licenses across all 50 states wow that is a that's an impressive amount of of kind of individuals and then cascading from that are a lot of patients under your care essentially right as the chief medical officer you are are having an incredible amount of response responsibility uh back when you were doing your residency at Georgetown and and of course I seen the resume NIH allergy Immunology Fellowship impressive uh did you ever imagine that you would kind of be a chief medical officer at all was that ever something you were interested in um probably not back then but my husband was in the tele medicine space and he was in the ICU tele medicine space and I was very intrigued to what he could accomplish over the computer and so one of my passions is Wellness and to take care of the whole person and I thought it was amazing to be able to touch more people and to make policies and procedures for people across all the states so I did join when I had the opportunity to join a startup company I thought it would be real exciting for me as well as just a great leadership position I do strongly believe that a physician leader should always be involved clinically so not only have I been a leader to this group of Physicians but I've also done you know urgent care and virtual Primary Care and show them that I'm willing to jump in clinically anytime I'm need it and I think that's been really powerful as a leader that that is a big deal especially when it comes to T Ted right because we kind of think a lot of Ted organizations the SE suite and kind of the Enterprise leadership sit at a very separate level than the clinician leadership and then that's kind of what I wanted to ask is when you first started what was that interaction like how big was the organization when you first came on board before it was a required sure so back then I think it was about 2017 we just had urgent care and so my job was to make policies and procedures grow our Urgent Care grow our platform with Physicians and then before the pandemic we added Behavioral Health which was very good timing and so we added psychiatrists and counselors made policies procedures that was very important because then we hit the pandemic and Telly medicine Telly Behavioral Health was essential during the pandemic so that at that time we grew our physicians we grew through more physicians in the Urgent Care our behavioral health started you know picking up substantially and we were in the place to then you know get acquired by recur health and add virtual primary care so it was a pretty fast growth and I really it was really fun to be along the whole ride I bet because you've you've gotten to see kind of things start off from a very kind of simple level with you know urgent care which of course urgent care itself is very complicated but you know at the time a lot of people were doing that that urgent care and then you know we've we've grown tremendously why and this is a personal question sure what has Drew you to this kind of work because clearly with the growth that you've established you know being through Medical School you probably could have gone into Investment Banking and I say this with a lot of people you know more lucrative careers so so there has to be some part of the mission that's really driving you what about it makes you get this satisfaction from your work um it's deeply personal for sure so um my mom is the reason I went into medicine and she had a lot of chronic diseases and had a lot of battles trying to get what she needed with the healthare system I was her advocate since I was 13 years old you know you're not really supposed to be an advocate at 13 but you know she was about to walk out doctor's offices because they wouldn't see her because she didn't have the right paperwork or whatever the referral was so I'd help her navigate the system and I felt that I wanted to be in medical school and I wanted to be part of the system so I could help others and I didn't want to turn people away because they had you know the wrong time or the wrong paperwork it's sometimes a very difficult system to figure out and so my passion was to go into it to help people like my mom who didn't really understand the navigation of the system and I think I I think she was proud of me now oh that makes a that's a big deal yeah that's a big deal um what are you accomplishing at ruro that sets you apart and and the reason I ask this is because you know during the podcasts we do speak with a lot of people who do the tele Med space but each of them does it very different and I try to address that early on in the podcast so that people don't say oh it's just another tele Med organization but but from what we spoke with earlier before the episode there's a lot of things that make ruro very unique uh what are some of some of those things so one of the things that's unique about ruro health is we like the midmarket we like the employer based the the Brokers the tpas we do really really well in that space and we customize we you know have unique printouts whatever needs to be done in that space is we're able to customize that and I think a lot of people in teley medicine are maybe walking away from that area we're embracing it we we love to deal with that market um we take really good care of their members um our their members have access we can see what access they have we can encourage them to use the psychiatrist or the counselor whatever it is they need to take care of their health problems why have others walked away what's challenging about this Market I think because they're small in group number and maybe the you know larger helate medicine companies don't want to deal with such a small group where we embrace them we we bring them in we take I think at ruro Health we're able to customize and put the groups together and what we do for one group is so similar to the others that we can just group them together and we don't mind taking care of a 5,000 you know a 5,000 member group we don't need a 10,000 or 100,000 member group to make it satisfying for us so some of these other telets are going for that scale of 10,000 100,000 and they're really trying to get those one of the benefits of that is the economy of scale though right I know you mentioned that you are in all 50 states you have a lot of licenses in those States but has there been difficulty at all in dealing with a smaller scale of population how are you able to kind of manage that effectively at such small levels we're able to manage it with our physicians our physicians are able to answer Urgent Care calls within usually eight eight and a half minutes so we've been able to keep our you know satisfaction scores and the 90 percentile so I think with those things just adding more members at the scale that we're comfortable with has been great and we haven't had to adjust I I think it's because it's challenging it's a challenging problem right is is maintaining the quality of care and the speed of care while also maintaining your Physicians happiness that work with you you mentioned that you you've worked closely sometimes directly with some of these these doctors what do they say about ruro is it a good place to work and is there anything you've done to make it a good place to work so one thing about Physicians is they're high burnout many many areas are high burnout you know ER ICU Family Practice Internal Medicine the primary care physician has a lot of high burnout a lot of people in teley medicine you know they enjoy it because they can take the job wherever they go it's a more flexibility and our physicians tend to stay with us because they like our platform it's the ease of use they can jump on and off they can use it you know anytime during the day at night and we also able to use the different time zones to make sure that we have um active Physicians 247 so Physicians can live in different places of the world then and then also kind of all adjust time zone uh we use us-based Physicians so they do have to be within the US um we can't take Physicians that are overseas and is that a legislative policy requirement it's for billing um even though we don't build the entities that would control that just Medicare Medicaid um CMS we don't actually build them we don't build Medicare Medicaid but we just in case one day we do we want to keep all PHS already in the and so that we don't have to weed them out at that point almost every T medicine company you have to be in the states in order to take their phone calls including us okay so but they can live anywhere within the us they can live in Hawaii they can live in Alaska and the um the way it works in tele medicine or in en is the it's where the patient is so I have a bunch of state licenses just like a lot of our doctors so I can see you if you're in Texas and I'm in Virginia so it's always where the patient is which is the same across every single tele medicine and that's great because you have 1500 licenses right so I mean that's a that's awesome yeah which is that's a lot of of locations and a lot of doctors so that's awesome um talking about kind of the expansion of services started with Urgent Care right what was the next one that you mentioned so urgent care and then the next that we added was Behavioral Health which included psychiatrist across all 50 states as well as counseling wow and then about two years ago we added virtual Primary Care the behavioral health makes sense because that is similar to what other tele meds at the time I think you guys got in a bit early and and like you said it's a good time uh to get in right before you know kind of the pandemic but then with virtual Primary Care that is kind of a different area of challenge what you know how did you guys decide to move into that area at Rec car Health we like to be able to offer atome Labs which is really helpful back engaged in their health care we also offer something called pharmacogenetics called PGX which gives you the ability to look at your genetics and how you may react to certain Psychiatry medications or cardio medications so that's also something we offer we also offer um testing DNA testing for certain hered hereditary cancers so we offer DNA testing for hereditary cancers that's with one of our offerings so we try to be across the board and you know different people pick different parts of this you don't have to always get everything so I think it's important preventive care is absolutely key accessibility is probably the number one thing that we care about ruro is you can you know access us from anywhere we do video for virtual primary care and Behavioral Health we also offer it for urgent care but most people want to use a phone about 90% of people want to use just the phone for urgent care but accessibility is so key and important we also have a 247 call center in case you just don't know how to use any of it you can still call and we can still help figure out how to get you connected with a physician those are some very unique services that you you've included with that and I am seeing kind of the theme of accessibility be really important what does this look like in terms of and and this is great my own ignorance kind of how this section of the industry works like you said that's that's probably a reason why people have left kind of or not really looked into this section of the industry how does does the finances work is this a a value based care model is this kind of a subscription model that these organizations or the groups you know vendors are paying like how does that all work if you don't mind explaining so most of it is a midmarket or aggregator space uh TPA broker so it's um you pay per month per per member so like a subscription model um so that's how majority of our members come in okay so then your job really is to try to manage and give them the best savings on that per member per member per month rate exactly so utilizing us for a rash or UTI not going to the Urgent Care also utilizing us for blood pressure checks or checking basic Labs whatever we can be utilized for to save a visit to an in-person doctor and now that we've expanded to Virtual Primary Care there are many things that we can do to help prevent having to go in and a lot of times we actually do work closely with someone's primary care doctor so you don't have to have exclusively a virtual primary care doctor or exclusively a primary care doctor in person so I I like that idea because of specifically kind of the labs that that's really something that I have not heard of before uh and I have not heard of it bundled in this in this way so what you're saying is you send at home lab test kits for things like A1C and hemoglobin so part of AOW you can have an atome lab service and that would be lipid panel and hemoglobin A1c so that's a great conversation starter for your brand new virtual primary care doctor to see what your cholesterol is what you can improve on to know your hemoglobin M A1c to see if you're in the pre-diabetic range or anywhere near that so I think it's a good Baseline couple tests that you can do that are really helpful for starter conversation with the new doctor and then we can always add other tests and you can go in person to a regular lab and get any number of tests done as usual so the the at home test are those do they have to mail it back or or you know how does that function yes so it's just a couple drops of think of blood on a card and then you mail it back in and then you have access to the portal that have your results and then you can meet with your virtual primary care and go over the details that is so cool yeah we also send blood pressure cffs to those that need it I I was very very key is you know hypertension is a silent killer so those that are at high risk we want to make sure they have the access to cuffs oh yeah no mean that's a and that's a huge deal for for compliance and and really everything nowadays um you know those Med adherence and then blood pressure uh is kind of the top issues um so one of the the kind of problems that I for see a lot is this interconnect ability when we start talking about virtual primary care and it's that I have virtual primary care which is headquartered in let's say you know Minnesota or something um and then the records are held somewhere in Minnesota and then I'm here in Philadelphia and then none of my Specialists here can see the records how are you working on kind of solving that issue and working to make sure that the information records are shared that is a very complicated question I wish there was an easier way um I think maybe one day there will be but there's you know we'd have different ability but even if you are still connected you don't get everything because they're not all all interconnected so unfortunately I we don't have a solution for that so right now how that would work is the member would have to kind of trans you know give them the the records off of the ruro portal correct correct and is there an easy export kind of function that's built into that yes it's not hard to get the records off of ruro we also can do it for you if you have any issues and fax them securely to your doctors oh okay so in the case let's say that a patient's been incapacitated or is just having trouble accessing their device for some reason they could submit the request say can you help us out and then you'll fax them to the appropriate location yes absolutely um so we don't do um remote monitoring so you had mentioned that with the question we actually don't have the remote monitoring so that wouldn't be applicable um but if we had a patient that was in the ER and they didn't know what they antibiotic they had or they weren't sure what we had diagnosed them with all they would need to do is log on and and look up their portal and if they couldn't do that or needed some assistance they could call that call center 247 release the records and we could fax them to the ER okay that makes a lot of sense and so that that does solve one of the issues of that virtual primary care and again enhances the the access why is access a problem for the for the clients that you're targeting and what improvements have you seen from implementing your services access is important across the whole us unfortunately there's a decrease in Primary Care providers there's very long waits for new appointments um getting in just to see a UTI you end up having to go to an urgent care center with a long wait missing school missing work it's very difficult to get in and out even for the simplest rash so we see lots of improvements using the urgent care for things that can be used for the virtual Primary Care is a scheduled appointment so you can schedule with the exact same doctor you can follow up in two weeks see how your anti-depressant is going see how your blood pressure is going I think it's really important we have continuity of care in our virtual primary care but we also have urgent care if you just need a you know something quick like a rash it helps prevent any unforeseen time that it would take to go to an urgent care it just decreases the patients burden as well as we take care of pediatric patients in the Urgent Care model so it also takes care of children and makes them to be you know also takes care of the ability for a parent to to take their child child in oh yeah because that can be a huge uh drag right to somebody's somebody's day because then you're you know you're already trying to console your your child and then now you're got to transport them and that and that can be uh unfun especially if they have you know some kind of of stomach flu or whatnot um and you mentioned you're trying to you know transport them a lot of people don't have the transportation even that's a big deal so being able to call and get a prescription so many pharmacies deliver these days so that actually takes out the ability of not having the transportation so it's so key for accessibility whether it's an adult or a kid just to decrease you know you're already not feeling well and then you have all these other burdens put on you and you also have co-pays when you go in and they can be higher in Urgent Care when you couldn't even get into your primary care so using us and using an urgent care or virtual primary care doctor and addition to whatever else you need is important you mentioned something that was really key to me and it's about being able to see that same doctor uh you know a lot of times what we're doing now with systems is we we're giving somebody a doctor and then we're having them rotate through residence to try to keep uh the slots open but the issue is you never see the same resident or very rarely because residents rotate as you know five weeks on uh five weeks uh or one week off at the clinic and then the other issu is again you're never really seeing your same doctor what does that look like there and what are the wait times for appointments with your same doctor so that's one thing that we definitely find very helpful for our members is they get to see the same doctor our wait times about two days for a virtual Primary Care visit and then you get to see that doctor on a scheduled visit so they're open to you know sometimes early morning sometimes late evening sometimes weekends so it doesn't have to be the 9 to-5 schedule either so that means that after work uh they're going to have uh enough appointments it's not going to be that that shortage that we have now where after 5:00 pm all the slots are taken for a year out no and we only offer our virtual Primary Care Urgent Care all these things I talked about we only offer them to our members we don't do direct to consumer or anything online it's only to our members so they have access to us and that helps actually keep us you know available for them that is pretty key right so that because because I've been talking with a lot of Ted you know every every telmed company wants to come on the podcast and so I I'm asking some of these key questions and you answered one of them which is that it's member only within the kind of negotiated Network that you have dealt with with the larger groups and so that's really important because what we found is once enough people hear about it they're going to want to go on the website and start and then all the appointment slots fill up and now they're running into a capacity issue but that will never happen with with your organization no if we need more spots we'd have more doctors come on open spots but we won't be flooded overnight by somebody heard about us and now you know thousands of people want to see us tomorrow that won't happen if there are members that's great we encourage them to come see us but otherwise we're only available to our members that's great uh and and does that help you predict capacity as well are you using Predictive Analytics to identify how many doctors you need and and when there needs to be doctors online or offline absolutely that's why we keep our call times for Urgent Care always under 10 minutes around 8.2 minutes or so and our wait times about two days for Primary Care and about three to five days for our psychiatrist that is awesome wow and I know you know I was recently an urgent care with my wife about a year ago and you know the wait time was was absurd and then at the end they just told us to go to the ER and so I'm sure a lot of people have had that experience right where it's like okay I have to go to the the urgent care because if I don't my co-pays are high and I have to go to the Ed and you know so and even with some of the best Hospital Systems it's just the the struggle that they're facing is like you said that access what a great alternative to have uh how can customers start looking into this what is and I know this is an unsponsored episode you know full disclosure to everyone we're you know we're not uh sponsored I just thought this company was great but I want to ask if a a company wants to bring this on to their employees or someone hearing this thinks this is a great idea how do they kind of get the conversation started with with ruro sure they can go on to ruroh health.com website um they can look through there see if there's anything that they like they want to talk about and then they can always reach out to to myself or there's actually a contact on the website and someone will get back to them from the sales team I'm not part of sales team so it's probably best to go on the website but I'm happy to get back to you as well great and then they it's it's a full kind of process where they identify the needs kind of figure out what the services are and then you said something key as well was there are levels to what kind of services and so that applies to the group right for example if you didn't want to pay extra for uh you know one of the services maybe because your population you identified it wasn't necessary you you guys work with them on that you can pick what you want um you can offer Behavioral Health and Psychiatry which I really encourage people to offer um however you can also get it without that is smart well thank you so much Dr Sauron I hope we can have you on again I'm excited to see where the organization goes from here thank you Cole appreciate it</p>
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