Key Takeaways
- Adopt a 'breadth-then-depth' fellowship structure—featuring project-based rotation followed by functional immersion—to build versatile, enterprise-ready leaders.
Michigan Medicine’s Administrative Fellowship is designed for ambitious early-careerists who want both breadth and depth—real projects, real mentors, and real exposure to system-level decision-making. In this conversation with first-year fellow Trent Garrett, MSHA, MBA, we unpack how a dual-degree path led him to Ann Arbor, why an atypical internship at Press Ganey paid off, and what day-to-day life looks like inside a two-year, project-driven fellowship that culminates in an “immersion” year. Expect candid advice on choosing programs, surviving interviews, and building a network that lasts. As Trent puts it, “there are going to be opportunities for you to learn and grow… based off of what you are looking for post-fellowship.” If you’re exploring administrative fellowships—or you lead one and want to sharpen it—this is your insider’s guide.
Trent is a first-year administrative fellow at Michigan Medicine whose nontraditional path (animal sciences → MBA/MSHA) gives him a distinctive systems lens.
Trent grew up in Panama City Beach, Florida, earned a bachelor’s in animal sciences at the University of Florida , and then made what he calls a “hard pivot” to health administration at University of Alabama at Birmingham, completing a dual MBA/MSHA. That shift was informed by hands-on clinical work during the pandemic, where he witnessed both the resilience of teams and the friction of fragmented processes. The experience sharpened his purpose: understand the clinical environment deeply, then use management training to remove barriers to great care.
Leaders consistently favor fellows who can translate clinical realities into operational solutions. Trent’s journey maps to that ideal: frontline exposure, analytic training, and the humility to learn in complex environments.
UAB’s three-year MBA/MSHA sequence (two didactic years + required fellowship year) provided both foundational business fluency and leadership development
For Trent—who came in without prior finance or business coursework—the dual program mattered. It layered core finance, strategy, and operations on top of healthcare management, with structured professional development baked in. He emphasizes the intentionality of UAB’s design: two years of classroom rigor, followed by a required fellowship year to apply it in practice. Even though Michigan Medicine’s fellowship spans two years, the habit of integrating theory with applied learning traveled with him.
A PCA role during COVID gave Trent empathy for clinical burdens; a consulting internship with Press Ganey gave him a cross-market vantage. Together, they grounded his administrative approach.
Trent started as a Patient Care Assistant at UF Health to “understand the scope of each role,” from nursing to medicine. Working through the pandemic surfaced “systemic issues” and sparked his drive to catalyze change. He then took an internship with Press Ganey Consulting, which became a high-leverage bridge between analytics and improvement. Over that summer and school year, he supported clients across:
The common thread: learning to see patterns across settings and connect survey insights, operational redesign, and change management. Cross-site exposure accelerates judgment. Seek experiences that mix clinical empathy with systems-level consulting or improvement work.
Be ruthlessly selective. Apply only where you’d say “yes” immediately, and cap your list to avoid burnout. “It is not easy… that was a very stressful time.”
Trent distilled his approach to three moves:
Practical toolkit:
Preparation and authenticity—in that order. “Come prepared, but also be your authentic self.”
Michigan Medicine clicked for Trent during the onsite: “All of the current fellows were just phenomenal… so personable, so intelligent and brilliant… I just fell in love with the institution and how detailed and intentional everyone was.” He also sanity-checked fit by asking: Are these people I want to work with?
Simple prep stack for candidates:
Leader insight: Authentically signal your culture during finalist days—fellows are interviewing you, too.
It’s a two-year program: Year 1 is project-based breadth; Year 2 is a deep-dive immersion in a specific area. “The Michigan Medicine Administrative Fellowship Program is a two year program.”
Year 1—Project-Based Breadth In the first two weeks, fellows receive a curated list of vetted project proposals. Each entry outlines the background, scope, preceptor, and mentorship plan. “The first two weeks… you get a list of submitted project proposals… and then who your preceptor for that project would be and how they would mentor you.” Areas span clinic operations, faculty affairs, graduate medical education, and more. Fellows choose to build range.
Year 2—Immersion (Depth) “We call it the immersion year… embedded as a full-time resource within one area or departments within Michigan Medicine.” That can mean an interim clinic manager role, a seat in Strategy, or another high-impact placement—designed to convert first-year range into second-year mastery.
Cohort Model & Culture Michigan Medicine accepts up to three fellows per year, emphasizing peer support and shared learning. Alumni remain visible, projects have demand (“leaders submit requests before fellows even start”), and the program’s decades-long history means stakeholders understand how to integrate fellows.
Bottom line for executives: This breadth-then-depth architecture de-risks early-career placement and creates versatile leaders who understand the enterprise.
Monthly 1:1s with two executive preceptors, quarterly with an executive sponsor, frequent touchpoints with the program director, and weekly exposure to C-suite meetings.
The structure is unusually explicit:
Fellows staff weekly upper-leadership meetings, seeing how enterprise priorities are debated and decided. They’re also encouraged to network upward: “We can cold call or cold email senior leaders just to have coffee chats or one-on-ones… and because we’re fellows, they’re more than open to it.”
High-priority, system-visible work with measurable impact. Trent helped Michigan Medicine roll out ambient AI documentation for providers—300 initial licenses—on an accelerated timeline.
“We had implemented ambient AI documentation for providers. We had 300 initial licenses… first proposed… as six weeks, and then… asked, can we cut this in half? And… we said yeah.” Why it mattered: reducing “pajama time” by offloading documentation burden so clinicians can finish notes during the day, not at night.
What success looked like:
What the project teaches fellows:
Inclusive, vibrant, and livable. “Ann Arbor is just a welcoming community.” Yes, winters are real, but even Trent’s co-fellow from Hawaii is thriving.
Trent was deliberate about choosing not just an organization, but a place aligned with his values. He found Ann Arbor to be:
Leader takeaway: Selling your city matters. Programs win when they help candidates imagine life outside the hospital—community, culture, and support systems.
Prioritize fit, cap the list, and be kind to yourself. “You are likely going to be told no… so be kind to yourself.”
Trent’s go-to guidance:
For programs: Make fit discoverable. Show candidates your mentorship model, project pipeline, and leadership access—and let them meet the fellows they’ll stand beside.
Short answer: A decades-long track record, a “build-your-own-path” culture, and enterprise-level buy-in. Projects are requested by leaders—often before fellows even start.
Trent highlights the institutional memory and demand signal: stakeholders know how to use fellows. That maturity produces four reinforcing benefits:
Michigan Medicine’s Administrative Fellowship blends intentional project design with access to decision-makers—and it asks fellows to own their journey. Year 1 maximizes range through a curated portfolio; Year 2 transforms that range into depth via immersion. Along the way, the program’s mentorship architecture and culture of executive access build the confidence and relationships fellows need to lead.
Actionable next step—whether you’re a candidate or a program lead:
As Trent’s experience shows, when structure and support align, fellows deliver outsized impact quickly—sometimes in as little as a week—while building the kind of careers that keep them in the system, paying it forward to the next cohort.
<p>there are going to be opportunities for you to learn and grow and there are going to be different opportunities based off of what you are looking for postfellowship. Um, a lot of times it's within Michigan medicine too. So that that was really cool to see. [Music] Good evening everyone. It's Brashangish Shaw with the fellowship review through the American Journal of Healthcare Strategy. Being from Michigan, I am really excited to highlight today's fellow Trent Garrett. Welcome to the show.</p> <p>>> Hi, thank you so much for having me. >> Yeah, absolutely. We have so many great things to talk about. Your uh career journey has been so unique with all your experiences so far. But before we get into all those details, high level, tell our listeners who you are, where you're from, and a little bit about you. >> Awesome. Thank you so much. So, um, hi again. My name is Trent Garrett. I am a first year administrative fellow at Michigan Medicine.</p> <p>I grew up in Panama City Beach, Florida, and went to undergrad at the University of Florida. Got my bachelor's in animal sciences. um had a really hard pivot in a career and chose to go to UAB for grad school to get my MBA in MSHA and now I am doing my fellowship with Michigan Medicine. Love to hear it. Um and I feel like health management is one of those fields where people tend to pivot from other science type fields. So I don't think it's uncommon.</p> <p>Um but want to kind of zoom in a little bit on the graduate degree. you know, you obviously have two graduate degrees. Um, overall, you know, how was your experience at UAB? How did you feel the program prepared you for what was going to come next? >> Yeah. So, um, one of the hard cells for me with UAB was the fact that it was there was a dual program option. So, coming from a very untraditional background, I had no finance or business classes or background with that.</p> <p>So I think that for me it was really important to have uh some sort of fundamental basic understanding of those things. Um and so having that supplemented with my MSHA degree was really beneficial. And I think something specifically about UAB that also spoke to me was the fact that it is a three-year program. So you have the two-year dedactic portion um which is common with most if not all MHA programs and then uh the third year is the required one-year fellowship.</p> <p>And so um though my fellowship is two years um the requirement is just one year of a fellowship. And so I knew that because there was a lot of intentional training and development within the UAB program that was really crucial for my development as a a healthcare leader. Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you're I will say you I think you might be one of the first Michigan Medicine fellows, but you're definitely not one of the first UAB grads.</p> <p>And so I love to hear um all the positive experiences that you know, you and your peers have had. It's obviously an incredibly reputable and strong program. So, thank you for sharing that. Um, you know, one of the other things that we like to talk about on this podcast are internships that people have had during their time as a graduate student, and I know we connected a little bit offline to highlight two of them.</p> <p>Um, a patient care assistant internship role that you had, but then also your time at Prescy. So, dive into that. tell us kind of how you went about navigating each of those highlights from either or both that really stand out to you when you look back. >> Yeah, absolutely. So, um when I graduated from undergrad, I knew that I was very interested in human healthcare. Um straying away from veterinary medicine.</p> <p>Um so, I was interested in being a patient care assistant at UF Health to get clinical experience and understanding specifically each scope of different clinicians. So whether it be nursing or PA or medical school, um understanding the scope of each role before applying to programs, um was really important to me. And so having that clinical experience, I had worked in the middle of the pandemic.</p> <p>And so that for me unveiled a lot of systemic issues within healthcare that really ignited a higher level calling to to catalyze some change in healthcare. And so I had talked with some clinical leaders that I had been working with and they had asked if I had considered health administration. And at the time I had no idea what that was. And so I got it. I know it was crazy.</p> <p>Um and under like as I learned more about it, I had a better understanding of okay, this is really where my strengths are and where my passions are and what I'm really looking for in a career. Um and so that was really important to me. And so I got connected with some leaders at UF Health um and really fell in love with the idea of health administration and that sort of you know started guiding me to the path of okay exploring MHA programs and that led me to UAB.</p> <p>Um, and so with the UAB program in between the first and second year, you have a required internship. And so I without having a lot of experience, I was pretty open to different opportunities. Um and actually the president of consulting within Presci had come to UAB and because he had graduated from the doctoral program at UAB and was wondering if there would be a UAB student interested in the Prescy internship.</p> <p>And so I inquired a little bit more just because I've heard the name Presci, but I wasn't sure how that really intertwined with consulting because that's not the vision that I had with Prescy. Um, so I got connected with Charles Hagood, who's the president of consulting there, and we started talking more about what that would look like. It would look more like your standard consulting internship.</p> <p>And um, I think the more that I learned about it and having different experiences with different types of healthcare institutions would be really great for my learning. >> Um, and that was >> truly what it was. Um, so that summer I worked remotely part-time and then spent a lot of time on-site with clients.</p> <p>So going, you know, from academic medical centers to rural healthc care centers to um, safety net hospitals, like ranging the gambit, really understanding more about these different institutions. Um, and really had just learned and grown a lot. And then fortunate enough um there were some projects that I was working on that really expanded throughout all of Prescat. And so they asked me to stay on throughout the school year which is really nice.</p> <p>Um so I was able to continue my internship through the school year and truly up to the week before my fellowship started. >> Yeah. Yeah. How cool. How cool is that? And I think, you know, we talked about this a little bit offline, but I want to bring it up again just because I think oftent times the the in the traditional path for graduate students is to go to a health system or even consulting for their internship.</p> <p>So, I think it's very cool that you got that consulting experience, but on the other side through Presey, you know, um an organization that so many hospital systems partner with and utilize. So I think how valuable is that and and to have the connection of someone who's such a senior leader within the consulting sector also I think want to call that out that I'm sure that was very impactful for you as well.</p> <p>Um, so you you touched on this a little bit, you know, you said that because you went to UAB, the fellowship was required. Um, and so I think that kind of made like the program in a way makes that decision for you. But tell our listeners, you know, when it came to picking your sites, narrowing down your list and staying on top of the very rigorous application cycle, you know, how did you do that?</p> <p>How did you manage um stay organized, manage your time and just stay on top of every little component? >> It is not easy and anyone who says it's easy is either lying or I need to learn from them because that was a very stressful time. Um and I feel like most people can resonate and it yeah it was hard. So I think for me I really had to boil down to what is truly important to me um postgradu postgraduation um and within a fellowship. So for me personally I'm from the south.</p> <p>I was okay with exploring different options um but I know a lot of colleagues and friends who I graduated with where they wanted to stay in the south and stay closer to family. It's really, you know, what's important to you. And so what was important to me was having that learning and growth development mindset.</p> <p>And so with my experience with Presey, you know, experiencing a very wide range of different institutions, having that understanding that academic medical centers really drive forward that learning and development and growth mindset. So I was looking specifically for fellowship opportunities that really harped on that, that continuous learning piece. It was really important to me.</p> <p>Um, and so I started doing my research and learning more that academic medical centers sort of were more in line with that like tripartite mission that I really fell in love with of the research, the education, and the clinical care. Um, and so learning more about that because I never directly worked in an academic medical center within the administrative space. So that was something that I was really looking forward to. Um, so yeah, I attended a lot of webinars over the summer.</p> <p>um really got to learn more about institutions through that got connected with different fellows of different institutions and it was a lot to juggle. I had a massive spreadsheet where I was, you know, webinar dates, you know, application timelines, like where these places would fall on a specific rank, you know, and I think something that was also important to me was to only apply to fellowship opportunities that I would say yes to immediately.</p> <p>Um, there are so many different opportunities out there and yes, it would be nice to apply to all of them, but it's just not feasible. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Great advice. And to your last point, 100% what a great I I think what a great perspective. Like would you say yes to this place if they offered you a fellowship tomorrow, you know, and and if you can without missing a beat say yes, then you know that that's something you truly want.</p> <p>So I I appreciate that little tidbit and I know our listeners will as well.</p> <p>Um and and so obviously you have to follow all the you know guidelines and make sure you have all the components of the application but then the next step interviews right there's first round oftent times second round final round tends to be a full day's worth of interviews with you know former fellows senior leadership seuite um looking back how was that experience for you anything that stuck out or you know anything that you felt made you successful during interview season. >> Yeah.</p> <p>I think something that is very telling for applicants is how authentic you really are. Um, of course prepare. Please come to interviews prepared. Um, but also be yourself. Like be your true and authentic self because that's truly where you're going to see the most fit. Um and that was something that I had heard a lot going through interviews and you know come reject like getting your first rejection it it's hard to hear.</p> <p>>> Um >> but when you really feel that match it just it makes sense and that's something that I felt with Michigan Medicine coming on site. Um, something that I also had really considered when I was doing interviews was when I was talking to current fellows at the time, are these people that I could see myself working with? Um, that was really important to me.</p> <p>And so when I came to Michigan Medicine, all of the current fellows were just phenomenal, so personable, so intelligent and brilliant. and I just fell in love with the institution and just how authentic everyone came across and how detailed and intentional everyone was. Um, >> so I think yeah, come prepared but also be your authentic self. That's how you're going to know if you people are going to hear this in the interview process a lot.</p> <p>You know, like you are interviewing them just as much as the fellowship is interviewing you. Um, and again, it's hard to hear because you're going through a very stressful time, but it's so true. And please like don't lose sight of that. It's really important to understand that you are also looking for what fits you and what you are looking to learn and grow in during your fellowship as well. >> Yeah, absolutely.</p> <p>I I mean, what great points that you made during that and and that point of, you know, they're interviewing you, but you're also interviewing them. not the first time it has come up. So, you're absolutely spot on with that. I think, you know, you want to make sure that it's the right fit for you and it'll be a place where you'll be mentored and you'll be able to thrive. So, I appreciate you highlighting that.</p> <p>Um, now for our listeners who are interested in Michigan Medicine, um, you know, let's talk about the structure of the fellowship. Is it one year? Is it two-year? tell us a little bit more about if you have co-fellows, if you have multiple or one, and then also just project based, um, rotation based, any other logistics that you'd want people to know? >> Yeah, sure. So, the Michigan Medicine Administrative Fellowship program is a two-year program.</p> <p>So, the first year is project based, and there are no assigned projects that you get. Um, the first two weeks of the fellowship, you get a list of submitted project proposals. um that have been vetted out by leaders that states you know the background of the the project what your scope would of the project would be and then who your preceptor for the project would be as well and how they would mentor you. So it's very strategic and very um thoughtful in that sense.</p> <p>So it can range anywhere from clinic operations to faculty affairs to graduate medical education just the whole gambit within Michigan medicine. and what you're truly interested in learning. Um, and then the second year is what we call the immersion year. So the first year we call it the depth the breadth of experience where you have all of these different opportunities within Michigan medicine. Whereas the immersion year is the depth of experience.</p> <p>So you are embedded as a full-time resource within one area or department within Michigan medicine to really get that depth of experience. And sometimes that can look like an interim clinic manager role or sometimes that can look like you working in the department of strategy. You know, we've we've seen fellows go in all different directions. Um and it is cohort model. So we take up to three fellows a year.</p> <p>Um, and that was also something that I was really looking forward to, especially if I'm going to be moving, um, after graduate school that, you know, I would have that support system as well of people who are understanding exactly what I'm going through and being able to have that camaraderie as well. Um, because that's how the UAB program was.</p> <p>We had a a cohort model that was just so phenomenal and I I learned and grew a lot through that and that was something that I wanted to continue growing in. Um let's see yeah I think that's sort of the highle overview of the administrative fellowship. Yeah. >> Yeah. No you covered it really well. Um one thing that I didn't ask but I will ask you to build off of your last answer. You know a lot of the reason why people do fellowships is access to mentors and really senior leaders.</p> <p>So talk to us about Michigan Medicine's approach to who your preceptor is. How do you get access to senior leadership and how do you make those mentors, you know, during your fellowship years? >> Yeah, great question. Um, so we have two executive preceptors and an executive sponsor. So we have the chief operating officer of the medical school that we meet with monthly individually as fellows.</p> <p>And then we have the chief um operations and integration officer of the Michigan Medicine that we also meet with monthly individually. Um and then our executive sponsor is the chief governance officer who was the pre who was a previous um president of the health system who is still around and doing a lot of incredible work especially within sustainability and governance um that we meet with quarterly.</p> <p>We also have a program director Swati who is a past fellowship alumni um and she we meet with her typically about every other week um just to you know make sure that we're doing the things that we need to do to have a successful fellowship um opportunity um and then access to other senior leaders. We are involved with uh staffing the upper leadership meetings every week. So that's all of the seauite executives of the health system.</p> <p>They all meet weekly to discuss the high priority topics that are happening. Um and then we also with the administrative fellowship card we call it. Um we can cold call or cold email senior leaders just to have coffee chats or one-on ones just to get to know them a little bit more. And because we're fellows, they are more than open to it. Um I usually try to schedule one about like one a week, one every other week with a new face.</p> <p>Um just to meet them and get to know them and understand their background a little bit more. >> Um so we get a lot of exposure which is another reason why I was I felt really called to Michigan Medicine was understanding that you do get a lot of exposure and you get a lot of mentorship through that.</p> <p>And you know something that I had talked about earlier was with our projects there is a detailed line of who your preceptor for that project is going to be and how they will mentor you through that project. Um and that was something really important to me too. Something else that I also didn't talk about earlier that I think is really important for my why for Michigan medicine was the long-standing history of the fellowship.</p> <p>um it's been around for decades and so people are very familiar with administrative fellows who we are they are submitting project um requests when we before we even start because they know that they want a fellow working on their projects um and having that support is really great and there are a lot of fellows who stick around too so um there's no standard trajectory of a fellow it's truly we call it sort of like a build your own path you know Yeah, >> learn and grow in the ways that you want to.</p> <p>Um, and you know, there are going to be opportunities for you to learn and grow, and there are going to be different opportunities based off of what you are looking for post fellowship. Um, a lot of times it's within Michigan Medicine, too. So, that >> Yeah, absolutely.</p> <p>Oh my gosh, you said so many green flag things that I want to like rehighlight, but you know, the fact that fellows stick around, the fact that there's decades behind the program, even the fact that you highlighted that people are requesting fellows, all great signs in my opinion. So, thank you so much for sharing that. Um, you know, kind of one more question specific to your fellowship experience.</p> <p>any project or any shadowing opportunity that you've done, you know, um, since you started, I think eight, nine months ago that really sticks out to you that you'd want to highlight just to give our listeners an example of the type of experience a fellow may get. >> Yeah. So, there was a project that I recently rolled off of. Um, it was we had implemented ambient AI documentation for providers. So we had 300 initial licenses for providers to use AI documentation for their patient visits.</p> <p>Um this is not something that the system has done before but other systems have and there has been prior to this there was a lot of conversation around AI. Um how do we use it?</p> <p>How do we especially using it to reduce administrative burden and cognitive loads especially for our providers because there is this thing called pajama time where providers are having to finish their notes after clinic and you know they're spending a lot of time at home finishing documentation because they're just like catching up and making sure that everything's wrapped up. And so, um, it was really cool to be part of the team that was rolling out the first 300 licenses.</p> <p>Um, it was a very aggressive timeline. It was first proposed to us is, um, the implementation would be six weeks and then going into the project, we were asked, hey, can we cut this in half? >> Um, and you know, we said, yeah. So, um it was an aggressive timeline, but I think it was just because it was so needed and you could tell it was received extremely well.</p> <p>Um there are some times, especially when working with faculty that a lot of the projects that we do, it's they view it or they can and have the opportunity to view it as something that they have to do, whereas this is something that is truly benefiting them and is truly for them. Um and you see the results immediately. So, we had our our 300 licenses updated, installed, and ready to go within a week. Um, and we were receiving so much good feedback.</p> <p>Um, and there's like some research teams who were still collecting data. I've since rolled off the project, but the sort of the emails and the messages that we were getting were I get to go home and I get to have a date night with my partner, which I haven't done in months, or I get to go home and I I get to read to my kids before bed.</p> <p>Um, so it was really cool to see the direct impact that it had on our providers because that was truly the goal was to reduce that time, reduce the administrative burden, and we're looking at potentially expanding those licenses to reach um other parts of the institution. So that that was a really big highlight of the fellowship so far for me. >> I love to hear that and I think, you know, really brings to light the impact that two ways, right?</p> <p>the impact that you can have as a fellow on institutional goals and helping you know I I think it's important to have that work life balance so people aren't sitting at home working until 10:11 at night. Um but then also it highlights in my opinion also the impact on your own career. This is probably a project that you're going to think about as you move up you know through the ranks at Michigan Medicine post your fellowship.</p> <p>So that what a cool initiative and I really appreciate you highlighting it. Um, one question that's more I I guess more fun and really it gives my guests an opportunity to highlight what they like to do out of work. Um, is you know I I preface this by saying that fellowships can require you to move cross country to a state you've never been to a completely new environment. Um, and of course you moved around a little bit. um you know, so what about the Ann Arbor area?</p> <p>What about the area around Michigan medicine do you love the most? Um what is something um that prospective fellow candidates should know about Michigan? >> Yeah, so coming from the south, it is a little cold. Um but I did just survive the last bit of the harsh winter, so it's it's doable. one of the second year co-fellows. Um she's originally from Hawaii. So, and she's doing fine. She's enjoying it, loving it so much. Um so, don't let that dissuade you.</p> <p>But I think for me something about Ann Arbor is the culture is just so beautiful. So something that I was also looking for um when looking at a fellowship opportunity was geographically more in in line with you know is this somewhere where you know people are accepted or where I would feel accepted or you know if this is truly the best place for me not necessarily just the organization but you know like if this is in line with my values as a person.</p> <p>Um, and so truly Ann Arbor is just a welcoming community. Um, that was something that was so evident. Just being able to build friends outside of work, um, was really important to me and I was able to do within, you know, a month or two. Um, in terms of things that I enjoy doing, I love food. Um, and Ann Arbor has a wonderful food scene, but something that people don't also talk about as much, but is really cool is Detroit is not far away.</p> <p>I live about 40 45 minutes away from Detroit, and there's phenomenal. Oh my gosh, the food scene over there is just incredible. Um, so you really get that like that college town vibe in Ann Arbor, but the city vibe is really close. Um, so you know, concerts happen, food scenes, it's just a really good time and it's a great place to be for sure. >> Yeah, absolutely. And you know, we chatted about this offline, but I grew up in Michigan.</p> <p>I grew up not too far from Ann Arbor, and I I want to say I agree with everything that you said. Um, Ann Arbor at one point was one of the happiest cities in the country. I know it was voted that multiple times in a year. Um, it's highly educated. um agree with the fact that the food is so great. There is I think it's a Cuban perhaps burger joint um in Ann Arbor that I I obviously can't remember the name, but >> Pete. Yeah. >> So good. So good. >> So good.</p> <p>>> And you know, you're right. It it's near Detroit. It's near a lot of other great suburbs. And another plus is you're not too far from the border to Canada. So in case >> Yeah. you want to take the ambassador bridge up and uh through Canada you can go explore a new country. Um but no thank you thank you for highlighting all those things.</p> <p>And you know my final question and something is very repetitive so our consistent listeners know that this question is coming but you know as you reflect upon your fellowship journey navigating such a competitive time and a and a stressful time. What advice do you have or when you look back is there something that you would change about your own application and interview cycle? I wouldn't say that there's necessarily anything that I would change about my application cycle.</p> <p>Um, a a small piece of advice I would say is don't don't apply to too many places. I know that it can be a little overwhelming. Um, but I had a a mentor um who told me, Trent, if you apply to more than 15 places, I'm going to fly to you and we're going to have a serious conversation. Um, and so I that stuck with me. So I I I don't think that I I think I applied to 15 places. Um but I think the the big piece of advice that I have truly looking back is be kind to yourself.</p> <p>Um you are going through a stressful time. I remember it vividly. You are likely going to be to be told no. Um and it's hard. It's it's a hard it's a hard thing to be told. Um so be kind to yourself at the end of the day. This might be a little repetitive. Um but everything truly happens for a reason. You will end up at the organization that truly you belong to. Um and that journey might take a little while. It might look nonlinear. Um so you have to be kind to yourself at the end of the day.</p> <p>You know, after your interviews, de-stress in the way that you distress best. Take care of yourself. Do what you need to do to maintain your peace and to protect your peace. It's so important because, you know, you can let the stress get the best of you, but again, like you have to be true to who you are and that that comes from being kind to yourself. >> Absolutely. What great advice and I couldn't agree more. Right.</p> <p>It's so easy to be hard on yourself when you get maybe a rejection email or you realize that you might not be moving on to a final round. But I also would say that, you know, the fellowship cycle is such a roller coaster.</p> <p>There were days where I would get like one, two, three rejections in a row, but then that same night someone would call me and say, "Hey, we want to invite you to a final round." So, I think like >> sitting with your emotions, but also recognizing that like, yeah, there's going to be a lot happening in those like two, three weeks. Um, so what great advice.</p> <p>Um, >> I loved highlighting your journey, you know, not only your graduate school experience, but I I think the press gainy stuff is very, very cool. And then of course, you know, Michigan Medicine being such a great health system and and such a, you know, strong and wellestablished program. Um, I know that there will be people interested in applying, especially after listening to your episode. And so, I just want to take a moment and thank you. Thanks for your time.</p> <p>I know it's significantly late later there than it is where I am. And so, I appreciate you staying on and really highlighting this incredible journey. And I know that as you move towards, you know, the rest of this year and year two, you're going to do incredible things. So, thank you so much. >> Thank you so much for having me. It's been so fun. I really appreciate</p>
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